Why can't I be a ghoul or a super mutant in Fallout?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by TheHouseAlwaysWins, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. TheHouseAlwaysWins

    TheHouseAlwaysWins Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 28, 2015
    I don't want to be a normie, every mutant knows that the mutant is the next step in evolution from being a normalfag
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    Mar 29, 2016
    Because Van Buren is no more and New Vegas only have one and a half year of development time.
  3. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 14, 2016
    You just need the right mod ;)
  4. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    Fallout Tactics?
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  5. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    Mar 29, 2016
    In that game, you can have your squad mates as a Ghoul or a Super Mutant later on, but not yourself as either.
    Unless it's a custom mission i think.
  6. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 30, 2009
    I'm 99% certain that come Fallout 5 you can, and you won't be burdened with any accountabilities or precautions by it either as it will be just as irrelevant as races in Skyrim.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  7. BDI898

    BDI898 First time out of the vault

    Aug 13, 2017
    You got the right idea
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  8. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    Because being a mutant isn't like being an elf or dwarf where you have a few physical differences to humans but otherwise can operate all the same ways.

    We're talking about 10 foot tall giants who can rival the strongest humans by default, and creatures that are fully immune to radiation.

    Playing as a Ghoul or Supermutant wouldn't be a simple issue of checking a box, and having a character with a funny appearance. If done correctly, it would completely change the flow of gameplay.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  9. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    Jul 7, 2014
    Actually, I don't think the main issue would be gameplay mechanics. It would be story mechanics. You'd need to redo a lot of dialogue for a lot of NPCs depending on your species. It's simply too impractical for most developers to do in a reasonable amount of time.
  10. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    @Jogre I wouldn't say the flow of the game play would be changed just the style/strategy of it.
    Consider this for a moment;
    As a super mutant, typically NPC's would act highly erratic in the player's presence.
    A ghoul would either be insulted, murdered, or flatly ignored (depending on the definition and style of ghoul used.)

    While a super mutant would be predisposed to use large weaponry and brute force, a ghoul would most likely opt for a more intelligent approach to combat, or to avoid it all together.

    With ordinary humans as in all RPG's they are the middle ground. But when a player can experience the world as another species, race, or culture's shoes it can completely change the style of game play.

    Flow on the other hand has more to do with pacing, which of course is completely dependent upon the developer and how they want to world to unfold to the player.
  11. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    I mean, given that Ghouls are literally resistant to radiation, it'd also pose some gameplay problems, given that lots of hazards would be completely irellevant for some characters.
  12. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I just don't think playing a ghoul or a super mutant in Fallout would really be feasible, especially if it's in the format of nu-Fallout games (and I don't just mean first person/third person, but the overall gameplay system).

    If it's like Arcanum, with a Beauty stat to procure some general reaction and its' modifier for NPCs first impression and subsequent ones, then it might work.
  13. Whammytap

    Whammytap First time out of the vault

    Aug 5, 2016
    Yes. This. In FO3, you can choose the race of ghoul, and it changes nothing but your face in the builder. Ghouls still call you "smoothskin." Super Mutants still try to kill you (wait, didn't they used to want to dip you?). You're still forced to complete Project Purity--either take the radiation that's good for ghouls out of the water, or introduce a virus into it that will kill all ghouls.
  14. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Because in Fallout you're from a vault that was never opened before. So there would be no ghouls there.
  15. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think playing as ghoul or super mutant could potentially work, but all the implications for the story and NPC interaction and general gameplay would sum up to quite a lot. The story background will have to allow it; can't have a fresh vault dweller again if you can play as ghoul or super mutant. And giving the player the option to write their own backstory like in Daggerfall or Wasteland 2? Not gonna happen in a Bethesda-made game.
    It'd be great to have the option, but it's not going to happen outside PnP versions of Fallout.

    I guess New Vegas would be the only game besides Tactics where it would at all be possible to play as ghoul or super mutant. The Vault Dweller is, well, a vault dweller, and thus can't be anything but pure human. The Chosen One could potentially be a ghoul, but not likely. Highly unlikely to be a super mutant. The Lone Wanderer is again a vault dweller, so human. So is the Sole Survivor. Only the Courier is enough of a blank slate to make it feasible for him or her to be a ghoul or a super mutant. New Vegas also shows the most peaceful coexistence between humans and mutants. Ghouls are generally not much of a problem, but super mutants in Fallout 3 and 4 are shoot-on-sight.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  16. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Fallout New Vegas was supposed to allow for it in the planning stage. But then they realized the engine limitations on armors and scraped the idea.
  17. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Is that so? Super mutant armor works in Fallout 4, and there already are different armor types for various super mutants in New Vegas. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to set armor wearable only by specific races. That stuff was already in Morrowind, where the beast races could not wear boots or closed helmets. They scrapped that with Oblivion, but I think that was less engine limitations and more laziness.
  18. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    From my understanding the only reason players lack the option to play as various other "race/species" is due to two reasons, 1 the engine simply could not handle it given the time of development of the project, and 2 due to Bethesda politely informing Obsidian "that would not be a good idea". (Bethesda has no intention what so ever of introducing this feature, and are completely against it.)

    Obsidian really wanted to develop in the option to play as something other than human in Fallout New Vegas, but due to time constraints, and Bethesda informing them to explore another direction stopped the effort cold.

    Realistically the engine(s) could easily support such a function, however games such as Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3, and Fallout 4 would have to be radically redesigned to support it. If a Fallout game was designed in conjunction with such a feature then the option would be fluid vs "tacked on" as we see with many of Bethesda's various "features" today.

    Balancing would actually be very simple, for Super mutants there could be a higher threshold for strength applicable to them, and a lower threshold for other attributes cut off from their special. This would force the player to understand that there is a difference between the races from character creation. There would also be default perks that make them unique such as rad immunity, and potentially other creative options to select similar to the "special trait" systems of the past.

    For ghouls there would obviously be a lot of caps on various special attributes, however to balance that the player would be allowed to start with much higher levels with skills vs. the default. Coupled with various other special traits to make the race unique.

    Work wise to complete such a feat is mostly modeling, animation, texturing, and writing in interactions specific to the race so that game play reflects the player choice.

    So to the question why we cannot play as a super mutant or a ghoul, in Bethesda's eyes it's simply too much work when they can make a half baked FPS with an upgrade system.
  19. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I guess Bethesda wants to focus on a more railroaded, "cinematic" story experience in their Fallout games. Doesn't really work with blank slate characters.
    Of course, modders to the rescue, there this mod. Looks pretty nice in terms of balancing, maybe a little overpowered. The mali you get are pretty miniscule and should probably be more severe.
  20. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Googly Eyed Super Soldier oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I was just talking to my cousin about my Fallout Doom mod having the ability to play as Ghoul and Super Mutant...
    • [Like] [Like] x 1