Why mainstream Science doesn't accept Atlantis theories

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by TorontoReign, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    This just in from the Web:

    A pyramid explored by Dr Ray Brown on the sea floor off the Bahamas . Brown was accompanied by 4 divers who also found roads, domes, rectangular buildings, unidentified metallic instruments, and a statue holding a "mysterious" crystal containing miniature pyramids. The metal devices and crystals were taken to Florida for analysis at a university there. What was discovered was that the crystal amplified energy that passed through it.

    But the crystal has never been seen again. No record of Dr. Brown ever conducting a expedition exists. As a matter of fact no pictures exist.No Florida records exist about a University involvement. Yet dozens of websites and apparent hacks like Sylvia Brown write books, quoting these websites that post bogus, ass-backward,wrong information to a gullible public ,thereby making Atlantis believers look like morons who can't even check their sources.

    I have literally watched dozens of people quote this above story and many others believing that Atlantis exists....This article proves it they say..... and by the way Reptilian aliens are genetically controlling the human race through a selective breeding program designed to take over the world because a ex-CIA guy said so. Give me a break.

    I am up for a good conspiracy theory or two, but there comes a point when it's too absurd. I believe a place like Atlantis may have existed, but dumbass articles and research discredit the very idea.

    Here is one more then I will end my rant:

    A sunken city about 400 miles off Portugal found by Soviet expeditions led by Boris Asturua, with buildings made of extremely strong concrete and plastics. He said "the remains of streets suggests the use of monorails for transportation". He also brought up a statue.

    People believe this shit? If we found plastic buildings and monorails underwater it would be all over the news. Excavations into this ancient technological race would commence, yet no one really knows about this great find because it didn't happen. Someone posted it and it was recycled all over the WEB.

    This is why Americans look stupid. Sylvia Browne is one of the leading best-sellers in New-Age books, and she is a moron. The website (which will go unamed) is a very popular one and heavily trafficked by sheep who will forever be the punchline of their own joke.

    Endrant and please forgive any typo's because I was taught in American schools.
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    the real issue is that those "stories" make it impossible to seriously do a research about "atlantis" to say that.

    When it comes down to it there is only one source of information. Plato. Now he can be either right about atlantis (so it was real) or he simply talked shit (it is not real).

    When ever a scientist or historian tries to find clues and do some serious research it is like a suicide. Because no one will take them/him serious anymore. Even if he does not follow this "conspiracy/mystery" crap and really trying to find evidence which speaks either for or against Atlantis.
  3. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    There's no 'serious' research to be done. Short of actually finding a sunken city somewhere or some miraculous previously unknown text there is no way to find anything new about Atlantis - because there's only one source of knowledge here.
  4. The Enclave 86

    The Enclave 86 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 5, 2010
    I believe that there are more sources that Plato, people think that there are many candidates for what he likely meant anyway.

    I watched an excellent documentry before about a city in the Southern Spainish mudflats that did seem extraordinarily well versed and connected.

    I cannot remember all of the details but it seemed like the most likely candidate for any city built around circular canals and with a fabled excellence in the field of metalwork.

    The people of this place also built another structure many miles to the north-east which even had an ancient egyptian symbol taking the most prominant place - I believe too that it had a connection to the art of metal working.

    I'm not explaining it as well as it was in the documentry but it was jolly interesting.
  5. Richwizard

    Richwizard I'm not dead! Orderite

    Jan 18, 2010
    It's possible that Plato's writings about Atlantis were inspired by historical events. It's also possible that he took creative liberties with his stories, or the events he referred to were so far in the past that by his time, the information he had was inaccurate. In any case, the truth about Atlantis may never be known. Real archeologists have found a few candidate sites for a historical Atlantis. But, until they find a ruined city with a sign saying "Welcome to Atlantis", the literary con artists and idiots will continue to thrive.
  6. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    Well, the whole thing about the crystal and the alleged secrecy sounds like bs but is there an ancient city somewhere that sunk or got permanently covered by water? Sure, very possible.

    By the way, the description that you wrote, with the whole power crystal thing, sounds a lot like Bimini wall:

  7. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 10, 2011
    Plato was a shitty philosopher anyways, way overrated. I thought his sequel, Aristotle, was much better.
  8. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Plato's Atlantis was likely just a metaphor, maybe even taken from others (hey, being one of the very oldest people whose writings have survived has it's perks). He didn't really care for realism, so to speak, so long as he got his point across. Because of this, any sort of city found under the water will be taken as Atlantis. Not to say it could not have drifted or something, but the tales of a wondrous, technologically advanced city (right, because that sort of thing springs overnight and is confined to one place) being stuck under the sea by the Gods or a conveniently targeted disaster seems to me about as likely as everything else in Greek mythology. Which is to say, not at all.
  9. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    The fact that people take his writing about Atlantis literally is fucking mindboggling. I'm pretty sure that in one translation or another he even mentions that he fucking made it up for the point of an analogy.

    Also reminds me of the "Ghost chasers" and "Bigfoot hunters" shows, and that are advertised like they might actually find proof. Like that'd be revealed on the fucking scifi channel or animal planet and not EVERY FUCKING NEWS OUTLET EVER. No, life after death is gonna wait for 8 o'clock on fucking Syfy.

    The most hope that Atlantis ever has for existing is that it's some known about sunken city that has been identified as something else, and someone somehow proving that some dudes once called it Atlantis.
  10. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    You could say the same thing about every religious text ever written, and the majority of people actually believe in that shit in one form or another.
  11. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    So you're a professional historian ?

    Plato mentions ancient egypt as source. But since no one has ever found anything by them which mentions "Atlantis" there is of course no way how to verify the informations given by him.

    Though I still find it funny how fast many just claim "that its impossible". As like things really work that way.

    didn't people thought Troy was just a myth either ? Good for Schliemann I guess that he didn't listen to this "serious" scientists.

    I am not saying Atlantis would be real. I just say it "could" be a possibility. There are still many things we simply don't know. There is even no clear evidence about the pyramids as graves. It are all just speculations which simply seem likely. I say it again before someone jumps on me. I do NOT say those "scientists" or "historians" are incorrect. I am just saying that history has proven countless times that things are not always set in stone. That is the interesting part about history. I mean what we see today is just a glimpse of the true picture after all. We look at parts of the world which are more then 5 or 10 000 years old. We probably will never have a chance to completely understand it. And there might be things we will never find out either.
  12. :::SILUS:::

    :::SILUS::: Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 18, 2011
    This. I wonder what people would say say if i claimed that a civilization that didn't know about the wheel constructed a gigantic city on the top of a mountain.

  13. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003

    Uh, yeah, they do. Narrative tradition and ancient writing has a ton of shit that has no corroborative historical evidence. Just because Atlantis is a popular myth doesn't make it any more likely. With no evidence in existence there's no reason to think it's real until someone proves otherwise. Duh.
  14. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    I love the smell of logical fallacies in the morning.
  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    And I completely agree with you here.

    The question is just:

    Can we claim that it is impossible ?

    Is that what I mean BN ? I like you and all but sometimes you come of as ... I don't know.

    Look. Maybe it is lost in translation. But I never claim Atlantis to be true. It is just serving as example. Do you want to explain to me History or "geschiedenis van de oudheid" works like Math ?

    There are so many examples in history where sources and situations have been either incorrectly interpreted or simply disappeared just to be discovered latter again. I see it happen for example many times around World War 2 (which is one of my really big interests).

    I never said I believe Atlantis to be "real". I just say we can not completely rule out the possibility and we should not simply think about every historian looking for evidence as "lunatic" just because he spends time with it.

    Is it likely that Atlantis exists ? Probably not.

    But I say it again. History has many examples where new forms/ways of research revealed informations which appear in a new light. Like the position Roman sources had in the history of the past and today where historians slowly dig out more and more informations about the celts and other cultures BEFORE the romans dominated them. It seems more likely that they taught the romans culture (by assimilation) and not the other way. - though that is not a new theory of course.

    Of course just because there is no evidence which speaks against Atlantis does not mean it has to exist - I realise that is not the way how things work or how you prove something but that is not what I am talking about. And it is very likely that it was one of Platos pipe-dreams. But I do not rule out the possibility completely. And I do not think that everyone who is searching for it might be some idiot. I mean who knows. Maybe someone will really find a rock with "made by atlantians" or something like that. How could we ever be sure if no one is looking for it at least ?

    If we turn everything down just because it sounds unlikely to us now we might have overlooked many things from in the past. Thinking sometimes outside the box or what science sees as "normal" isn't that bad. As long it does not end this way:

    *I hope you get what I mean.
  16. PainlessDocM

    PainlessDocM Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 5, 2010
    Atlantis was nothing more than a myth during Plato's life (and had been for over 9000 years!).

    It was not meant to be taken literally like so many pseudo scientists and goof balls have been doing.

    But pseudo scientific gobbledygook sells well. (see also UFO's, Loch Ness, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Scientology, Bible,...)
  17. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Is anyone claiming it is impossible? This is something you brought up for no apparent reason. People were just speculating about the value and meaning of Plato's writing, you're the one randomly spinning into this "how can you deny it's possible?!" gunk.

    That doesn't give any value to idle speculation when there are no or few valuable sources. Sorry, but both Sander and me are university-educated historians, we just don't go in for this claptrap.
  18. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    Meh. I've found that a lot of people who haven't developed a sense of criticism towards knowledge fall into that category. There's two geniuses at work that spend a lot of time watching YouTube shows boasting the idiocy of organized religion, then jump to 'scientific' websites about The True Nature Of The Universe, gobbling everything unquestionably.

    You don't have to be American to be stupid :)
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Schlimann wasn't. And he basically moved with the Iliad in his hands to search for troy of which many thought it was just a myth. - Well it was of course a bit more then that but you get the picture.

    I am not trying to attack or provoke you I recognize that you're the person with education - didnt knew either that Sander is a historian?. I am just saying that we should not just shrug of a myth as fruitless because it seems unlikely. What I see many times is that opinions play a very important role in the interpretation of informations. Otherwise historians would never have a reason to argue.
  20. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Your obstinacy is getting very provocative.

    No one argued Atlantis' existence is impossible. Nobody argued against serious studies being made of it, by professional historians or otherwise. All we've said is lacking such studies, and with interpretations of Plato being what they are, there is no reason to take this seriously, nor any other myth. If some entrepreneurial student of history one day uncovers real evidence, cool, but until then there's no reason to take it seriously "just because it's possible". This is what you don't seem to understand.