Yet Another Ammo Mod (YAAM) Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Haenlomal, May 4, 2010.

  1. Aqui

    Aqui Guest

    Thanks for clearing this up.
     
  2. Perforaitor

    Perforaitor First time out of the vault

    1
    Feb 25, 2012
    mod problems

    Hi,

    currently im playing fallout 2 because New Vegas made me a fan of the fallout series and i wanted to play one of the real old games
    :mrgreen:
    Now i installed the mod because i hate imbalanced or unfixed things in games. But somehow i had some problems.
    I bought Fallout 1/2 at GoG. But the Fallout 2 installation directory didnt include the .cfg file, the cfg file was hidden somewhere in the appdata where my save games were. So I copied it in the directory, next problem was that the ddraw file was ddraw.dll and not ddraw.ini. So I renamed it and the installation worked(multiple quick screens and no error so i suppose it worked). is it normal that i have to do these things? I hope the ammo patch works now...It works with old saves doesnt it?

    I think the huge Fallout 2 Restauration mod doesnt work with old files, 10 h new gaming would be too much for me :-(

    New Problem: The patch works but there is some kind of graphic bug, some of the areas have weird colours and it doesnt look very nice... :-(

    Okay now im extremly confused. I reinstalled the game after several tries with other mods, now there is no graphic bug but he shows me the new stats from the mod(Dt mod 1-5 etc.) how could that be i thought i reinstalled it?
     
  3. Haenlomal

    Haenlomal It Wandered In From the Wastes

    178
    Sep 25, 2003
    Re: mod problems

    Hmmm...I admit that I'm not that familiar with the GoG version of Fallout 2, so I don't know where specific files are going. That said, it sounds like you're using Vista or Windows 7. Can you confirm which OS you're using?

    As for uninstalling and reinstalling, both sfall (ddraw.dll and ddraw.ini) and YAAM (specially modified proto and message files) are not part of the standard installation. So the uninstaller would not remove them. In order to fully uninstall YAAM, you'll need to do the following:

    1) Open ddraw.ini, and change the line "DamageFormula=5" to "DamageFormula=0".
    2) Remove the modified proto and message files, if they are still there. These files are:

    data\Proto\Items\00000008.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000029.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000030.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000031.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000032.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000033.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000034.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000035.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000036.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000037.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000038.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000039.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000095.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000111.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000121.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000163.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000274.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000357.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000358.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000359.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000360.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000361.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000362.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000363.pro
    data\Proto\Items\00000382.pro
    data\Text\English\Game\PROTO.MSG

    3) Replace any of the above files with the original version if necessary.

    Please PM me if you need anymore assistance.

    Cheers,

    -- The Haen.
     
  4. oxidize

    oxidize It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 18, 2012
    I want to download this mod, but direct link is dead and atomic gamer link doesn't work (I can't download anything from their site; dunno why)
    Can someon give me alternative link pls?
     
  5. Hety

    Hety First time out of the vault

    27
    Nov 9, 2008
    Same question? Does anyone have a backup of YAAM.rar?
     
  6. Drobovik

    Drobovik Vault Archivarius Modder

    415
    Jun 20, 2011
    New link for YAAM mod

    Hi, everybody.

    Here is an alternative link to download YAAM v1.1a
     
  7. Perkus

    Perkus First time out of the vault

    1
    Aug 30, 2013
    Hello, registered to post this, it seems to me that the formula for modified_DR as posted in the technical details, section 4.1 of the author's original post is incorrect, on two accounts.

    You currently have this:
    Code:
    modified_DR = armor_DR + [10 * min(modified_DT, 0) / 100]
    1) I believe the brackets are incorrect, the division by 100 should affect the armor_DR portion as well if you look at how the result is being used, so it should actually be:
    Code:
    modified_DR = [armor_DR + 10 * min(modified_DT, 0)] / 100
    2 In section 2.2, you mention that "Under no circumstances should DR fall below zero or above 100." This is not represented anywhere in the formulas you have listed. As such, it would appear that when impact of the 10 * min(modified_DT, 0) is negative and exceeds the armor_DR, you keep the negative value around and thus it increases the resulting damage. This goes against what you have in Section 2.2, so I'm assuming you're actually not allowing modified_DR to go below 0. The "above 100" case is not actually possible, so that's not a concern. But the formula should reflect the minimum of 0 as follows:

    Code:
    modified_DR = max{[armor_DR + 10 * min(modified_DT, 0)] / 100, 0}
    I am assuming that this flaw exists only in the documentation, and that the actual code is doing both of these things correctly. If Haenlomal is still around he may wish to double check that.

    If I am correct about this, the wikia article should also be corrected. I've been working on a damage calculation spreadsheet, and ran into these issues while trying to code the math based on these specs.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. xsr

    xsr First time out of the vault

    9
    Oct 18, 2014
    I remember using the formulas on the wikia to calculate stuff too.

    In reply to (1): I think Perkus is correct, but the meaning is obvious anyway, and anybody that is doing what we did will know to correct it themselves.

    In reply to (2): It is working correctly for my in-game testing, but I also ran into the same problems when trying to do what Perkus did(i.e. either both Perkus and me did something wrong, or else the listed formulas don't include not allowing damage to be increased beyond total armor penetration).


    My own input:

    - YAAM's base meaning is not complicated at all, and I, who is not a math freak, can easily understand it. What YAAM means is that (1) JHP-type multiplication effects are now applied only *after* the DT is subtracted, and (2) If target DT is low, a strong enough DT mod will not just completely penetrate the DT, but any leftover will then continue to reduce the DR by 10% per leftover point. ( all the way to 0% if possible )

    - Therefore simply calling it "DT mod" might be slightly misleading until you read Haen's explanation and understand armor penetration under YAAM.

    - The formula in the spreadsheets that Haen has provided in his download should be correct; I have used that as a base instead of trying to do my own spreadsheet from scratch.

    - Weapon penetrate(weapon property that cuts DT to 20% or less) probably always had powerful combinations with ammo characteristics. If just considering YAAM, (1) weapon penetrate in combination with even a modest DT mod acheives some DR reduction against even power armors(even reducing DR 55% to DR 45% is significant; you do one-fifth more damage), and (2) YAAM reduces the JHP effect to x1.5, but in either case, if you're able to consistently acheive "bypass armor" crit effects, JHP can well be stronger than AP(even though "bypass armor" only bypasses 80% of effects; hence some armor penetration still does help to mitigate the remaining effects).

    - Haen's YAAM is just a split-off from his then rebalancing efforts? i.e. he generally followed original fallout 2 ammo characteristics instead of customizing ammo characteristics himself. I have been using f2wedit to modify default YAAM values, and even in conjunction with weapon penetrate, it seems to be working flawlessly so far(I have been calculating expected effects and then testing in-game to see if it matches). I believe that weapon penetrate rounds down the DT(after the 80% reduction), and simply inserting an appropriate "0.2*" into Haen's spreadsheet seems to suffice in calculating the combination effects. (edit: removed my erroneous note as per Nova's post)

    *** Many thanks to Haen for doing this damage formula tweak. <3 ***

    (and if you didn't install it via Restoration Project, you might have to use the new link kindly provided by Drobovik. (: )
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  9. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder

    Mar 10, 2007
    In my tests it works the same way as other weapons (.223 pistol, power fists, etc.) with the same perk: reduce target DT by 80%.
    Weapon Penetrate doesn't reduce target DR, and I've edited the information on both The Vault and the Wikia.
     
  10. xsr

    xsr First time out of the vault

    9
    Oct 18, 2014
    You're right; I made a mistake earlier, sorry :sad: another thing: in haen's spreadsheet, explosive DTs for power armors don't match the current ones on the wiki(or in my RP 2.3.3). Relevance being that AP rocket's DT mod should probably be 24 to achieve the effect that haen intended(i.e. with the current DT mod of 20, I think explosive rocket does more damage to power armor than AP rocket).
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  11. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    286
    Dec 22, 2013
    I've noticed this as well, and have experienced game effects scenarios that would suggest that DR can in fact go below 0%. This mod really just makes AP ammo (or the DT reduction) very powerful for the most part.

    Is there a way to look at the code and verify this? It may be an error on my part.

    Quick example - Let's take the PPk12 gauss pistol that does 22-32 damage. The 2mm EC ammo has a DT modifier of 9, and no damage modifiers (in my game files). I've seen non-critical hits of 40-45 damage on metal armored soldiers, wtih DT of 4 and DR of 30. There's no way this could happen unless, somehow, the weapon is dropping the DR below 0.

    It could be an error on my part, though? Any thoughts on this?

    *Edit* - I'm a fool. I had the game difficulty set to "rough" in preferences. Turning it to normal and I'm getting no additional damage due to DT bypassing ammo on unarmored targets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  12. viggolo

    viggolo First time out of the vault

    8
    May 30, 2010
    What are the steps to disable/remove YAAM from Restoration Project without reinstalling?
    (It installed with RP)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  13. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder

    Mar 10, 2007
    1. Remove the following files from your Fallout2\DATA\proto\items directory:
    00000008.pro
    00000029.pro
    00000030.pro
    00000031.pro
    00000032.pro
    00000033.pro
    00000034.pro
    00000035.pro
    00000036.pro
    00000037.pro
    00000038.pro
    00000039.pro
    00000095.pro
    00000111.pro
    00000121.pro
    00000163.pro
    00000274.pro
    00000357.pro
    00000358.pro
    00000359.pro
    00000360.pro
    00000361.pro
    00000362.pro
    00000363.pro
    00000382.pro
    2. Edit the ddraw.ini and change the DamageFormula option to 0.
    3. Download Unofficial Patch manual install package (it has much smaller file size than RP manual install). Extract 00000031.pro, 00000121.pro, and 00000163.pro from DATA\proto\items to your Fallout2\DATA\proto\items directory. Also extract Data\Text\English\Game\PROTO.MSG to overwrite your existing one.
     
  14. Neblogai

    Neblogai First time out of the vault

    8
    Jul 8, 2014
    I like this mod, as it fixes a lot of issues of AP being worse all the time. But I'd like to point out one issue, and maybe ask for some rebalancing of non-AP ammo. The problem is at midgame- AP (especially low caliber) is not better than HP against proper mid-tier armor- right where it should shine. For example, we can use metal armor (DT4, DR30)- it makes sense that armor piercing (5mm AP, .44 FMJ, or 10mm AP) should be the needed against it, and not hollow point. But what we have, is:
    Assault rifle 8-16 = average 12, vs metal armor:

    JHP: 12-4DT=8, *3/2=12 damage
    AP: 12-(4DT-4DT Mod)=12, *1=12 damage

    Or .44 Magnum, 12-18 damage= 15 average, vs metal armor:

    JHP: 15-4DT=11, * 3/2=16.5, * (1- 0.3DR)=11.5
    FMJ: 15-(4DT-4DT Mod)=15, * (1- 0.2DR)= 12

    So basically, AP in midgame is worse against unarmed targets, and only just as good against armored ones. 3/2 multiplier simply compensates the DT mod against armored targets, making JHP more universal and essentially better.
    And that is before additional modifiers are taken into account: 'bonus ranged damage' help JHP much more than AP, making JHP even better. For example,
    Assault rifle, 2x bonus ranged damage, 8-16 damage + 4= average 16 vs metal armor:

    JHP: 16-4DT=12, *3/2=18 damage
    AP: 16-(4DT-4DT Mod)=16, *1=16 damage

    Or .44 Magnum, 12-18 damage + 4= 19 average, vs metal armor:

    JHP: 19-4DT=15, * 3/2=22.5 * (1- 0.3DR)=15.75
    FMJ: 19-(4DT-4DT Mod)=19 * (1- 0.2DR)= 15.2

    Thus, AP ammo variation is essentially not needed for early or midgame for .44, 5mm or 10mm- and in late game- other weapons and ammo types take over. That is why a fix would be great.

    The way to fix would be to remove 3/2 JHP multiplier if bullet does not pierce the armor DT (if modified_DT>0, then Dmg mod=1), and maybe add 2 DT mod to all JHP for better early game balance.

    The result would be:

    Early game, no armor vs .44 Magnum pistol, 12-18 damage range= 15 average:
    JHP: 15* 3/2=22.5, FMJ: 15 * 1= 15 - (so JHP is much more damaging)
    Light armor- 2DT, 20% armor:
    JHP: 15-2DT=13, * 3/2=19.5 * (1- 0.2DR)=~15.6 FMJ: 15-(2DT-2DT Mod)=15, * (1- (0.2DR-0.2mod))= 15 (so JHP is about the same as AP)
    Decent armor- 4DT, 30%:
    JHP: 15-(4DT - 2DTmod)=13, * 1=13 * (1- 0.3DR)=~10 FMJ: 15-(4DT-4DT Mod)=15, * (1- (0.2DR-0.2mod))= 12 (so armor piercing ammo is better. Even more so against combat armor and higher:
    Combat armor MK2, 6DT, 40% DR: vs .44 Magnum pistol,
    JHP: 15-(6DT - 2DTmod)=11 * 1=11, *(1- (0.4DR+0.4)=~2.2 FMJ: 15-(6DT-5DT Mod)=14, * (1- (0.4DR-0.1mod))= 7


    This way- in early game JHP would be best against most, but AP would help against stronger opponents. And in mid-game- AP would be the better ammo against armored, and not just 'not worse than JHP'.
    Can this change be done?
     
  15. Titkositva

    Titkositva First time out of the vault

    1
    Aug 30, 2018
    I did some calculations with various weapons and the impact of this patch on damage is minimal where it was not the intention to change things. Even critical damage remains about the same. Great work!

    One curious difference I found is with 5mm JHP. While non-critical damage is unchanged, critical damage is increased. Minigun damage against the player in power armor the worst torso critical used to be 25 per bullet, while it is 30.2 with YAAM. Similar with other weapons using 5mm JHP.

    Balancing critical damage is pretty important, especially for the burst weapons to keep the already high variance somewhat under control and let ironmen live.