Dishonored 1 and 2

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by CT Phipps, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'm a huge Dishonored fan. After the disastrous attempt to reboot the Thief franchise, it really has become the Spiritual Successor to the Thief franchise as well as exceeding it in a few areas (while falling behind in others). The steampunk hellish pseudo-London of the original game is awesome, even if I think the gameplay was a bit wonky and the game was way-way too damn short.

    Dishonored: Definitive Edition review

    I admit, I kind of regret the fact The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmoore Witches were DLC as they really feel like they'd make a good intequal like Dragon Age 2 or Wolfenstein: The Old Blood. There's really some DLC which I think should have been released as separate games, which this definitely qualifies as. It helps Michael Masden is tailor made to voice gravelly voiced video game characters.

    I've just started Dishonored 2 and this is a game I'm actually hesitant to play because I want to savor the experience. It's kind of an oxymoron experience but I loved Princess Emily and Corvo so much from the original games that I want to take my time enjoying it this time around. I'm a bit iffy about Delilah Copperspoon as the villain since re-using Corypheus was such a bad idea from Dragon Age 2 but she makes a much better antagonist for Emily than she did Daud.

    I'm definitely going to be playing her for my first playthrough, even though Stephen Russel was an inspired choice for Corvo's VA.

    Stunt casting or no.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  2. joevonzombie

    joevonzombie Buried alive in Golgotha

    Sep 28, 2015
    I like the Dishonored games well enough. they're better than the abysmal Thief reboot, but not as good as The Dark Mod.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  3. Hellion

    Hellion Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jun 20, 2003
    I played Dishonored 2 as Garrett Corvo, no-kill/full-stealth/no-powers playthough, and absolutely loved it. GOTY 2016 as far as I'm concerned, definitely a better THIEF game than the abysmal Thief reboot.

    Tried starting it again as Emily... and it just wasn't the same. The fact that Corvo is voiced by Stephen Russell triggers my Thief fanboyism to such an extent that I just can't get into Emily as a protagonist.

    Anyway. I'm sure we'll see Daud return for the DLCs, so there's also that to look forward to.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  4. Millim

    Millim What the fuck is this for a shit?!

    Oct 13, 2010
    Played a bit of the first, I liked it enough, just never do used it (I might take it back to Uni with me next year).

    It's better than that damn Thief reboot. I'm still upset I paid for that game.

    Might get dishonored 2 when a GOTY thing comes out.
  5. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Played the first and liked it. While they are not as challenging as the classic Thief games (my all-time favorite stealth games along Hitman: Blood Money and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory), they are fun to play and easy to get into plus they have an interesting world and lore (that Dishonored 2 went into detail a little too much from what I can gather). They are nothing grand to be but I like em well enough.

    Plus, it's far better than the abysmal Thief reboot (thank goodness the whole thing failed and shame on Rhianna Pratchett's writing for that game).

    I like that Dishonored 2 got Stephen Russell to voice Corvo and even got him to replicate Garrett's voice. Shame he speaks too often like a grizzled and depressed war vet (since Corvo's character was written that way). Still interested to get Dishonored 2 though.

    I may get Dishonored 2 once all the DLCs are out and it's more stable on PC.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    Honestly, Thief (2014) is one of the games I will say I genuinely hate.

    Weak storytelling, unmemorable characters, and there's not much to actually steal in the game. Thief failed as an open-world game, as a single-player experience, and as a game where you actually steal stuff. It felt like the game should have had about, oh, thirty times as many missions and characters which were actually memorable. Instead, it felt like someone had done an Assassins Creed city without the laughably evil targets. They also threw out all of the lore from the original games.

    Which makes no damned sense.

    Eh, I actually like the character of Corvo as a separate being even if he didn't talk much in the first game. Making him full on Garrett might have been a bridge too far. Then again, Michael Masden would have made a fine Corvo and they should have probably gotten someone else for Daud (Stephen Russell? :))
  7. Millim

    Millim What the fuck is this for a shit?!

    Oct 13, 2010
    I wouldn't even say I hate Thief (2014), it's just so unremarkable.

    I played he demo and though 'this looks decent'
    Turns out the demo is better than the game.

    The story is beyond silly and the levels themselves were far too small and linear.
    I hated the mini map which shows your direction. Thief is not a game that should have map markers.

    The whole experience was meh.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  8. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    The Dishonored franchise nails it 5 points, in my opinion:

    It doesn't glorifies violence, unlike 99% of its competitors. Sure, you can be absolutely brutal and kill every single one you encounter. You can, the devs let you do it, because they treat you like an adult, not someone they have to hold the hand to and tell you what is wrong and what is right. And there won't be a "BAD ACTION!" menu popping up. But in the end, as an adult, you'll have to deal with the consequences and take full responsibility. And you realize that violence is as destructive to you as it is to your targets. It's a never ending circle of destruction, of pain and suffering, that affects everyone. You, your allies, your enemies. It doesn't glorifies violence, it just shows it as it is, and lets you use it or not, because the devs think that you are mature enough to take your own decisions. A bit like the Outsider, really.

    It's deeper than it looks. Despite what the name suggest, you weren't "dishonored", because you have never been honored in the first place. The whole game takes you on a journey to realize that it was a trick. Honor is a lie made by the powerfuls you fight against, a lie to manipulate you and force you to do their bidding. An excuse for your brutality, like the Overseers use the excuse of their faith, or like the loyalists use the excuse of their ideals. All of that, to escape from their responsibilities in the overall chaos, their sadistic tendencies, their imperfections. It's really a story about facing who you truly are, behind the mask. Which is why Corvo always puts on the mask before a mission. Which is also why you never learn about his ties to "someone" before the very last act.

    The level design is brillant. While many praise Bethesda for putting rusty baths and teddy bears in ruins, Arkane Studios nails narrative design. Every single level has an INSANE level of detail in it, and every single one of them tells a story about this universe. Which is unique, by the way. It's really hard to put Dunwall and Karnaca into a specific genre or atmosphere. The idea of an advanced, industrialized victorian empire built on the ruins of an ancient civilization worshipping whales, which now serve as source of electricity and power... the whole thing, with a coherent and interesting political and social structure. I mean, damn!

    It's humble. It doesn't try to be the absolute next gen revolution, or to drastically change its genre. It just... delivers what it promised, and it does it perfectly. The game knows what it is, and doesn't pretend to be more. It just tries to excel at what it is. Same approach with the story : humble. Simple narrative, understandable by every type of audience, yet flawless.

    The idea of experimenting a romance after the death of the lover is interesting. You experience it through visual reminders of what this love story was. You feel the emotion of a current romance whenever Corvo sees something that triggers his regrets and nostalgia. It's an interesting approach, really. Could call it a reverse narrative.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  9. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I actually felt the game did a good job of deconstructing pacifist runs as well. Corvo's non-lethal options are EVIL rather than good. What he does is infinitely worse than just killing the people involved and designed to inflict the maximum amount of misery possible on the people involved rather than just give them a quick merciful death. There's also a lot of good moments taken throwing the usual, "Do everything someone tells you to do" in video games with Granny Rag's quests just being designed to make the world an objectively worse place.

    I think they did a good job with making High Chaos runs also feel thematically appropriate as well. If you're allergic to happy endings, it feels good to see the bloody tragedy of it all play out.

    In fact, I really enjoyed the backstory and comparing/contrasting Gristol/Dunwall versus Serkonos with ideas of honor. Which is, basically, comparing British and Italian nobility. The honor of the Dunwallers is all about societal status, prestige, and position. Corvo is an upjumped commoner (strike one), an upjumped foreigner (strike two), and sleeping with their virgin Empress (strike three). It also makes Emily set out to be a mongrel in their eyes.

    While Corvo is from a place where honor is about the vendetta and the fact that you preserve honor by murdering the fuck out of people who cross your family.

    I.e. why Assassins Creed 2/Brotherhood are the only good ones which don't involve being a pirate.

    I wish they had got Lena Headey back to be the captain of your whaling ship/base. I would have liked a Corvo/Callista romance possibility even though he's 53 and carrying the heart of his dead lover around.
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  10. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    This makes me happy.

    But yeah Dishonored was the first proper stealth game I ever played (what the fuck was I doing with my life?). It's not particularly difficult like older stealth games but it sure is fucking fun.

    Dishonored 2 for me has been running pretty well, and since GAME fucked up my pre-order I got it a week late and the first patch was already out- no bugs and one crash in four playthroughs. Graphics and lighting are a step up, and so is the AI. Just an all round general improvement upon the first. D2 has also shown me that I love throwing conscious people into elevators to then break the cables causing them to fall and be crushed by debris.

    I have a few gripes:
    D1 - whilst there were great side characters, some of the main ones didn't have the best writing (most of their dialogue was exposition)

    D1 - it was too short. I would've had at least two more levels, something like Eminent Domain from the DLC and maybe a city mission in between the Loyalists and Light At The End- to see the effects on regular Dunwall citizens in person rather than in the epilogue (although the Flooded District shows a lot of the poorer residents).

    D2 - the new Outsider. RLT is not a bad actor, but he speaks way too fast. The first Outsider was a god who was bored with his eternal life and decided to give out supernatural powers to people for entertainment. He does it 'just because', whereas the new one wants Delilah to lose because she is draining his power. In the first game he would be standing still, and would make slow gestures, but in D2 he moves constantly and is always teleporting.

    D2 - the plot. The first game's plot was nothing remarkable but it wasn't bad either so I'm quite lenient with it. But D2's isn't bad either it's lazy. It's all about Delilah taking over the Empire, just like the DLC. She's also using painting again; and her coven of witches are back; and they torture Overseers; and then you can trap her in the painting again. It just felt meh.

    D2 - the witches. Dishonored did a great job in 'gender equality' without it coming across as 'feminist propaganda'. This is also well done in D2 with female officers, a female scientist etc. But then there are the witches who were "abused by men" or "forced into marriages with men" and I'm just like "what? Did I miss something?" It's kind of hard to create an abused female in a society that views women as equal to men to the point where a single mother can rule an Empire and her daughter can be her heir. So I'm guessing Emily the Wise decided to install a patriarchy for shits and giggles.

    D2 - what the fuck are these non-lethal eliminations?! What the fuck is this? So you have "curing someone's illness" and "removing someone's supernatural abilities" and "trapping them in a fantasy world where everything is perfect". Not really a punishment at all.

    D2 - the Dreadful Whale. Yeah yeah yeah it's cool how it's an anagram for 'Farewell Daud'. But it's so empty. You have Meagan. Then you might have Hypatia next mission. And then you get Sokolov for the latter half, and Hypatia leaves. Then you might get Stilton for a whole one post-mission segment. It's so empty. The Hound's Pits had several servants, Havelock, Martin, Pendleton, Emily, Piero, and Samuel.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I'll share my Thief review here if they want but it can be summarized by two facts: 1. You get rid of Stephen Russel, get rid of the Hammerites, get rid of the Pagans, and remove the Keepers--so what is left? 2. Garrett lives in a clock tower like Batman? Why? Isn't he supposed to be the kind of thief who actually spends his money? He's not a Dark Avenger.

    Dishonored strikes me as a hybrid of Deus Ex and Thief--which is not a bad pedigree in the slightest.

    I'm thoroughly spoiled but I am only at the start of the game because I took time to finish my playthrough of the Brigmore Witches. I was also a little out of practice as that ended up a High Chaos run and sort of ruined poor Daud's ending. I may replay it for a Low Chaos one.

    My thoughts on your thoughts, @SarcasticGoodGuy.

    I think they could have done about two more assassination missions for the Loyalists and had you have to eliminate all three of the Loyalists separately in one level. Either that or plant evidence so they all killed each other like the other ones. I am not adverse to brief games if the storytelling is strong as it's better to be short and go out on a high note than wear out your welcome but I understand what you're saying.

    It feels like a remake of the original game's DLC and could have done with a couple of twists throughout. I would have been interested in discovering, for example, that Delilah actually works for the good of her followers and was a reformer in addition to being a totalitarian would-be God Empress. Maybe also insert a couple of twists like Empress Jessamine had a dark side.

    Actually, I was always under the impression Dishonored did a good job of showing female oppression without going overboard. Callista hates the fact she's stuck being a Governess versus being a whaler. Lady Boyle only has power through being the Lord Regent's mistress and bankroller. One of the prostitutes at the Golden Cat was a former notary who had only this job after losing hers. Also, I felt it was the fact Emily was born out of wedlock that contributed to the fact she (and her mother) overthrown.

    Yeah, that's bullshit. In no way am I going to trap Delilah in a painting after what happened last time.
  12. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    I really enjoyed the first game. I loved its atmosphere, its art design, the gameplay. Sure it's nothing spectacular but not every game has to be. I can play this game and not kill a single person, heck I even try to avoid knocking out anyone unless it's absolutely necessary. I'm debating whether to get Dishonored 2 because some people say it's great while others say it's not as good as the first one.

    Oh and one last thing:

    Should we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  13. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    @CT Phipps yes there was some oppression in D1, and looking back on it the first DLC explains why (the slaughterhouse owner and his gang of all male butchers shutting down every other slaughterhouse). But I don't know where this "Jessamine was overthrown because she was a woman" has came from- Hiram thought that she was too weak to rule Dunwall due to his paranoia, he never mentions anything about her gender- and don't you dare start making your fucking 'inferences' again or this will end up like those 200 page long Fallout 4 threads.

    @Prone Squanderer indeed I believe so, this is more exciting than any orgy I have ever attended!
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I thought the fact she was a woman with no legitimate husband and a child was part of the reason why she was considered to be too "weak" to rule. The sexism in the society seemed to be coded everywhere so Hiram feeling he should step in felt like it was tied to all the sexism, classicism, and racism in the game.

    If you read about Corvo, he was framed for murdering Jessamine and they mention it was because he was a filthy Serkonan.

    There's some good essays on the subject.

    How the Empress was killed without fridging
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  15. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    What was wrong with thief 2014? I own them all on steam but the reboot was the only one I played.
  16. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    My review:

    Thief is a difficult game to review because it's often fun but it's also bugged as hell with a weak storyline. Thief strikes me as a game which needed about six months to a year more added to its development cycle. They could have added a Fast Travel system, more characters to interact with, and padded out some of the problems with the derivative seeming plot.

    As a fan of the original Thief series, I was pleased to see this franchise getting rebooted but I was worried it wasn't going to seem as original or fresh after the release of Dishonored by Bethesda. Dishonored was, effectively, a steampunk version of Thief only with the main character serving as an assassin rather than a thief. Also, the main character of Dishonored possessed incredibly fun supernatural powers absent from Thief. This is, unfortunately, true.

    Moody atmospheric gameplay with a dull story.

    The premise is the main character, Garrett, suffers an accident which seemingly kills his former apprentice and knocks him into a coma for a year. When he awakes, he finds his city (named, "The City") devastated by plague and a class war having begun between the rich and poor. Garrett must rebuild his looted headquarters, investigate the mystery of the plague, and steal everything not nailed down (and a few objects which are).

    Fans of the original Thief will note a number of things are conspicuous by their absence. The previous games were defined by their conflict between the eco-terrorist Pagans, the steam-tech obsessed Hammerites, and the morally neutral Keepers. All three factions are absent here and the weird thing is there's no reason they have to be. The Hammerites are the equivalent of the Catholic Church so they should be a background element, Garrett is a former Keeper so you'd think they'd come up in conversation, and the Pagans strike me as a group which would love to take down the new game's main villain.

    I'm not the sort of individual who wants to see original series beholden to their roots but this is a bit like doing a Star Wars movie without the Rebellion, Empire, or Jedi. Yes, theoretically, you could do it but why would you want to? Even if you want to add to the setting, you should at least acknowledge what's come before. The fact what they added, the class-conflict and plague, was already covered by Dishonored kind of undermines things. There's only so many stories to tell but you have to tell them differently. It doesn't help that Garrett doesn't really have any reason to become involved in the struggle between the two sides either.

    This is your archenemy. Err, kinda.

    Even the more interesting characters are troublesome. Garrett's apprentice, Erin, is the motivator for a large number of his actions throughout the game. Thief seems confused about whether Erin is a psychopath who Garrett pushed away because of his violence, a girl he's in love with, his surrogate daughter, or any combination thereof. This would normally be a multifaceted character but we don't get to spend enough time with her to understand what sort of feelings our protagonist has for his lost companion.

    I'd like to say the City, itself, makes up for it but it's as confusing as the characters. While it's perpetually night and moody, giving the place a somber Medieval Noir feel, the place doesn't exactly feel very lively. Most of the areas in the city are blocked off until you pass certain storylines in the game and the sense of free-roaming which would have made this game more interesting is severely hurt.

    Erin is awesome but barely present.

    It doesn't help there's a million doors in the City but only a handful of them lead to places you can break into. I wouldn't mind this if there was anything worth stealing in the majority of the locations. Garrett steals spoons, magnifying glasses, bells, scissors, and other items which make him feel like a petty thief as opposed to a master one. I'd have appreciated the game more if Garrett had about half of the loot and double the value. The fact you seem to be robbing impoverished citizens half of the time doesn't make your character feel much like a badass either.

    The gameplay helps make up for these heavy flaws. Garrett is an entertaining character to play, giving you a sense of profound power as you stealthily move from one location to another. The addition of a set of fingertips removing every bit of loot you lay your hands on, gives a sense of accomplishment to every little theft (even if there's too much "trash loot" as mentioned above). I even loved the addition of Garrett's "knock-out" cutscenes lifted from Deus Ex: Human Revolutions.

    The missions for Thief are really where the majority of the fun happens. Breaking into a slaughterhouse which has been re-purposed into a crematorium, sneaking into a brothel built into the remains of a Keeper (?) ruin, and even the smaller missions like robbing a jewelry store are all very fun. If there had been a better storyline to tie all of these missions together, I think Thief would have been a modern-day classic. Unfortunately, they don't.

    Stealing is, appropriately, the only fun part of the game.

    The City is too depopulated to be a living entity, the missions are too far apart, and gameplay gets frustrating when you want it to be enjoyable. It took me several hours to figure out there was an experience point system beyond buying better equipment. I also found the Focus system to be frustrating as I would have preferred it to cost nothing and only illuminate items of interest or actually be of use beyond serving as a time-saver.

    The characters are boring too, with none of the big personalities of the original Thief games. Erin is probably the most interesting character aside from Garrett and she doesn't have a role for the majority of the game. There's also a Darth Vader-esque guy in the Thieftaker General who I think we're supposed to be archenemies with but the guy is just too petty to really care about. I feel like the Thieves Guild quest from Skyrim was a much better Thief game than this was--not the least because Stephen Russell did the voice acting for Mercer Frey.

    Garrett will be deaf from living here.

    In a very real way, the game's sense of authenticity can be summarized by the central hub area. Garrett lives in the clock tower of a church, which he uses as his Batcave. The thing is, no one in their right mind would do this. How would you sleep? Why would you live there? Garrett is not a vigilante superhero, he's a guy who steals money to pay his rent and presumably live it up between missions. It looks cool, don't get me wrong, but shouldn't Garrett have a pad more akin to the Boss from Saint's Row? You know, stripper poles, elf-maids, or whatnot? It would have made the point of being a thief feel more authentic.

    In conclusion, Thief is fun in spite of itself but I felt almost no desire to actually play the adventures and I realized halfway through the game I didn't care. U didn't care about the characters, the plot, or what was happening. This is, simply put, an extremely disappointing game. If you want a real sequel to the original Thief franchise, you should play Dishonored instead.

  17. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Sep 17, 2016
    Oh yeah only played dishonored 1 this year for the first time. Loved it. Pre orderd dishonored 2 and also loved it despite some performance issues. They are great stealth games and a proper successor to thief. As someone said above its basically dues ex meets thief and that's pretty dam cool. Love the series now and I want to give DH2 another go as corvo (went Emily low chaos first time thru might do low chaos again tho) after I finish Titanfall 2. If you ask me they are better stealth games than MGS5, which no disrespect is still a great game just my personal preference.

    Also Arkane's work on dishonored is why I am so hyped for Prey. Because Prey is basically dishonored meets system shock 2 and the closest thing were going to get to a proper system shock sequel in a long ass while.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  18. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Half-way Through My Half-life

    Sep 17, 2016
    I really love these Dishonored 2 trailers.

  19. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    That trailer looks like a bunch of cosplayers LARPing
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  20. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    As opposed to the Fallout live action trailer, or the Assassin's Creed blockbuster? ;)
    In order to truly give the Dishonored atmosphere in a live action video, it would require a lot, a real lot of money. And I don't think that Arkane Studio is bathing in benjamins for this title ; Bethesda handles their budget after all.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1