Censorship? There is no censorship!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by cronicler, Nov 29, 2014.

  1. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    He probably should've kept looking, mostly because "well I just think this white dude is the best person for the role" is always the justification for whitewashing a film or series. Because that's both how PR works, and how unconscious biases work. Of course Scott thinks a middle-aged white dude is best for the role, because that's the kind of person he has always seen in these sorts of roles. Besides, it's not like there's a shortage of good non-white actors out there.
     
  2. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    The more I look at those stills, the more I see a Welshman trying in vain to blend in with Egyptians. It's horrible.



    EDIT: "I can’t mount a film of this budget and say that my lead actor is Mohammed so-and-so from such-and-such" (Ridley Scott)

    what is this I don't even
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You know where it gets really fun Tagz? I have read somewhere that they will use natural disasters to explain all the stuff that happens in the movie, even the part where Moses is crossing the Red Sea. But yeah ... lets try to make it realistic. But don't let the Pharao look even anything like this!



    I am kinda divided, I mean if Scot really believes that Bale is the best choice for his vision of Moses? Who are we to tell him, no STFU! And get this Mexican guy! Feels like telling an artist to paint the horses in his picture in green even though he feels that they would look better in red. After all you could always argue that Moses was maybe white. We simply don't know it. I mean it's not like he's filming Hotel Ruanda and filling the lead Role of Rwandan Paul Rusesabagina with Bale who got a paint job to look like a black person.

    Though, if most of the cast is dominantly white and rather Caucasian/American looking, then I do somewhat agree with you. Because just like you said, there are many good actors out there. Of pretty much all colours and ethnicity.

    What would be interesting is how people would actually react to a black Jesus. Or at least one that was not white. Chances are pretty good that the historical Jesus was not white.

    A black mass? I think that is still too much for the American society, can you imagine all the heads that would explode? I guess they would rather accept a black female President exposing her nipples in congress before that happens. By the way, she could always tell the audience that she's trying to win over the republican party.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  4. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Christian Bale is shit at accents though. I watched the trailer and it just seemed like an out of place english dude. Definitely wrong casting in that movie. Still, Ridley Scott makes amazingly pretty movies, so I'm betting the movie is worth watching on that fact alone. Not worth paying for in the cinema though, for me, I think.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well at least he had enough sense to make Salah ad-Din look like a moslem.
     
  6. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    "I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up."
    The cold, hard reality.
     
  7. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    He assumed he won't get it financed, so he didn't even try. That's what's wrong.
     
  8. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    I think it might also be the rigid hollywood culture that doesn't do these things from a racial motive, but purely from marketing. I've heard the expression somewhere, and I couldn't for the life of me remember where, but that some hollywood guy once said that caucasian audiances want for their lead either a white guy, or will smith. It's this culture of wanting such a tight grip on the contents of these products, to the point where they don't see what succeeds and what audiences want any more.

    On the subject of gamergate, I think this is a particularly noteworthy debate:
    http://branch.com/b/gamergate-debate-video-games-free-speech-misogyny

    Since it's both sides presenting their opinion in an even-sided discussion. Not a lot of those being held.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  9. PlanHex

    PlanHex Legislative Senator oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    Not really, since at that point there's not much more to discuss, since it's all just fluff about which way the interpretation of the statement goes. The only effective way to go further is to ask him but not even that matters much since when asked "did you mean that in worst way or not?" there's only really one way he would answer. I'm curious to see these other statements you mention though.
    And then the point is moot, since I don't give a shit about those other people but rather like TB in general, hence why I was defending him.
    I skipped most of that crap to be honest and don't remember what the original text is in this context, but when dealing with statements like these it's not much of a jump to extrapolate that he'd believe something like The Birth of a Nation should not be protected as art since it has no value. I don't think that's the case, but to be honest I wouldn't rule it out completely either. Again, we could ask him, but the answer is obvious.
     
  10. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    And I don't really care about TotalBiscuit specifically, but I do care about the prevalence of that argument. So...we're kind of arguing two different things here?

    I actually tried to find some other quotes to back up my opinion of TotalBiscuit, but I can't find any. Certainly possible I'm mistaken and that he meant a more sensible interpretation. TotalBiscuit has shown himself to be kind of clueless when it comes to social justice issues, but I was probably too harsh on him here.
    It's certainly possible that he thinks that, and there are plenty of people who would think that anyway, sure. That art (or any cultural product) doesn't have an intrinsic value just because it's art. I'd probably argue Birth of a Nation is valuable in spite of its racism, but I could see the opposite viewpoint, too. It wouldn't be unreasonable, to my mind.

    Regardless, the point with Walpknut's stuff is that he believes cultural critics are saying that women should never be allowed in certain roles (as the subject of violence, as a side character rather than the main character, as someone to be rescued) and that that's just restricting women's roles. That's patently not what anyone is saying (or at least not anyone I know, nor anyone he has cited): the critiques are almost always grounded in a context where women are overused in those roles and underused in other roles. And this is particularly galling because this kind of objection keeps coming up throughout this entire shitstorm, and it's nothing but a giant straw man.
     
  11. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    On the subject of movie casting, there's Green Lantern. I was never all that interested in comics or comicbook characters in cartoons and such. But I did see a bit of Justice League, and in that Green Lantern was black. I always assumed he was black in at least the modern comics/cartoons. But in the movie Ryan Reynolds plays him. I was dissapointed, both because he's not black and because he doesn't fit the role in my eyes. He's a bad actor for anything but comedic characters. But then I even googled "Isn't Green Lantern black?" after the movie came out, and it turns out a lot of people had the same idea. But casting aside, that movie was shit anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  12. Gnarles Bronson

    Gnarles Bronson regular mutant

    373
    Oct 30, 2011
    He's a fifty year veteran of the industry, I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
     
  13. CthuluIsSpy

    CthuluIsSpy A Smooth-Skin

    636
    Dec 20, 2011
    You'd be wrong. Hal Jordon, the Green Lantern in the film, was a white guy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Jordan
     
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  14. Gnidrologist

    Gnidrologist Wasted

    135
    Jul 15, 2004
    i mean, biotruthism...
     
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  15. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    He's also Ridley-fucking-Scott. A guy who is one of the most acclaimed directors in the industry and makes movies that perform well at the box office as far as the total global performance is considered. Given that Prometheus is the highest grossing Scott's movie to date and it's a movie about an old cripple meeting giant pale aliens with a host of retards to kill off as the movie progresses, I'm pretty sure he could have his way if he wanted.

    The fact that he chose not to bother is pretty annoying.

    The difference being that it describes a particular form of argument and is inherently playful, while cultural Marxism is a ridiculous conspiracy. Try harder.
     
  16. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    "So yes, to momentarily borrow Yudkowsky fanboy terminology, I wear black robes. I am a practitioner of the Dark Arts. I rigorously manage my own thinking and purge myself of dangerous "unthinkable" thoughts -- "mindkill" myself -- on a regular basis.This is what you have to do to be a feminist anti-racist progressive, i.e. a social justice stormtrooper, You have to recognize that there is no neutral culture, neutrality is impossible, that culture is a cutthroat war of memes and that you have to commit to picking a side and setting yourself up as a neutral arbiter of memes is impossible and is a form of surrender. You have to constantly "check your privilege" and "unpack the knapsack" and all those other buzzwords.
    You need to understand that the only way to be "rational" in this world is to be irrational, that the only way to be "fair" is to pick the right side and fight for it.
    The people who genuinely win are the people who do this. The people who refuse to do this are the ones who sit on the sidelines and never even lose because they aren't really playing.
    I've said before that I'm amazed at Yudkowsky actually coming out and saying this at one point -- that his movement is really good at getting people to make propositional statements that he judges to be "rational" but really bad at, like, actually effectively making rational decisions.
    He likens this to "a dojo that teaches you how to punch rather than kick", whereas I think a better analogy would be "a dojo that teaches you how to spectate rather than fight"." -Arthur Chu (http://archive.today/kA0K5#selection-2095.0-2115.177)
     
  17. CthuluIsSpy

    CthuluIsSpy A Smooth-Skin

    636
    Dec 20, 2011
    Did...he actually say that?
    Holy shit, that's like something a villain would say.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    that makes it even worse. I mean ... what tagz said. I mean looking at it, the lack of experience in the past didnt stoped Scott from making the lead role of what is today one of the most famous Sci-Fi movies a female.



    And I am not talking about the Alien.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
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  19. CthuluIsSpy

    CthuluIsSpy A Smooth-Skin

    636
    Dec 20, 2011
    Out of curiosity, how many renowned Middle-Eastern actors are there in Hollywood?
     
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  20. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Uh... Alexander Siddig?