Disney meets Bethesda meets HBO? New Star Wars movie

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by farchettiensis, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. farchettiensis

    farchettiensis First time out of the vault

    48
    Feb 5, 2015
    Ah, the new Star Wars movie (there might be spoilers down the road, so be advised). Here are some thoughts after I watched it yesterday (12-17-15). A few question to start this off:
    -Was Todd Howard assistant director to JJ Abrams?
    -Did Emil lend a helping hand to write the characters of this movie?
    -Did Bethesda had secret meetings with Disney? Because it's Fallout 4 all over again. Big events to promote the movie, high expectations, hyping, ''rpg-for-hardliners'' sort of line v. ''old fans will love this movie, it's all about the classics'', as some ''professional reviewers'' are already saying by now.
    -HBO's Game of Thrones producers lent Jon Snow to be the villain of this movie? Did they also have a secret meeting on how to employ a terrible cast ''to appeal to the new generation of 'fans'''?
    -The humor in it. Is this freaking Disney Channel?
    -The plot. Is there one?
    -Is it important that the new Star Wars movie lacks credibility? :wiggle:
    -Ah, the factions in this movie! They are as good as in F3 or F4.
    -The cast. I can foresee Oscars being awarded to all of them, collectively.
    -Movie of the year.

    Let's by the last one. Like F4 is about the Fallout Universe, this is the Star Wars Universe, but it's only Star Wars-ish. The movie doesn't seem to have much of a plot to it, it's more like an excuse to pluck elements that will draw different sorts of audiences and give everyone ''a good time'' - it's all about having a few lighthearted laughs, zero nuance Disney Channel/Zack and Cody sort of humor. It's a revamp of old themes, unbelievably unoriginal - Death Star, new father-and-son conflict. The plot is almost non-existent, it's more like a plan: we have planned to put certain characters because we believe this attract this sort of folks to the cinema, but we haven't really thought how this fits in the universe, how plausible it is. Logic is too old school, for haters.

    Factions (or sides, parts, whatever). This one is easy. I'm not a Star Wars aficionado, but as far as I remember, the Empire had been defeated, the Sith Lord killed, and the Republic restored. These are the main factions in the movie: The Republic, which is there to die and cause commotion as it passively accepts destruction of its entire system, as it offers no resistance, and never noticed that the remnants of the Empire have build a massive weapons, several times larger and more powerful than the Death Star. The 'Resistance', it's funny how there's a Resistance after the end of the war against the Empire, I mean, it just doesn't quite fit in this universe, and why is it called a Resistance? Presumably, after the war they would go from being a sort of guerrilla/unofficial army to becoming part of the Republic or at least an official army, some being incorporated power positions. So, what are they now? A paramilitary army which resides in a different system and chases the Empire, in a sort of Tom and Jerry never-ending conflict? Finally, there is the First Order. Remnants of the Empire, they are apparently led by the giant Turd Sith, a little screaming general, and an adolescent emo who can't do anything right. They are as organized and powerful as if they were never hit. The Death Star could destroy planets; this new ridiculous weapons, which draws its energy from the Sun (lulz), can destroy entire systems. Yes, you guessed it right: the rebels destroy it as easily as the Death Star.

    Chewbacca is now a funny little ball of fur. While humor had a place it in the former movies and was effectively balanced with serious scenes, great dialogues, and great acting, this one is just an endless series of slapstick jokes.

    Stormtroopers still can't aim.

    Forget about a cast that has Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing, Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, Samuel Jackson, Ian McDiarmid. You now have an adolescent who worships Darth Vader (apparently, that's why he uses the mask, since there's no logic to that), and whose laughable attempts at drama inspire only compassion for his terrible acting. He's such a poorly written character that I feel sorry for him.

    The force is ridiculously portrayed, IMO. It feels like a joke. Hardly believable at any point. It went from being a mysterious and reverential thing to being an object of joke, at times.

    Like in Bethesda's games, you can't be defeated, the good guys, I mean. Having recently found out about the Force, the to-be-Jedi defeats the pathetic Sith, and does more than that, humiliating him on occasions.

    If you found that the defeat of the Empire in the old trilogy wasn't that much plausible, but comprehensible in face of the budget restraints, apparently a $200.000.000 budget wasn't used to make it any more plausible. The good guys always win.

    So, there you go, the new Star Wars movie. Rings a bell?
     
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Anyway who's saying that Star Wars wasn't about the story, need to be slapped. Hard. And repeatedly. I hate this concept that some people have about it:

    Let’s not pretend for a moment that Star Wars has always been primarily about the story- that trope belongs more honestly to the Star Trek series. Star Wars has always drawn heavily from epic space battles, lightsaber duels, and to much extent, the largeness of scale that Abrams has become known for in recent years. Outside of a screening room that is capable of encapsulating the feeling, power and precision of these elements (already prevalently displayed in the trailer) Episode VII will need to stand on a compelling story by itself.

    But let us pretend it does. What was the quality and screen time of space battles and light saber fights in Star Wars? Cant be that one duel between Obi Wan and Darth Vader really, which was pretty much the ONLY duel in a new Hope. Outside of that, you had Luke and Vader in Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedy. But that's pretty much it. As like Star Trek movies contain so much story either these days ... I mean I get it. Star Wars is not Citizen Cane. But even a SIMPLE story, can be told either well or, it can't be told at all. Star Wars was mainly about emotions and acting. The interaction between the characters.

    I have yet to see The Force Awakens, but honestly, I never had high hopes to begin with, knowing JJs recent movies.
     
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  3. GlutinousRice

    GlutinousRice Ne travaillez jamais

    247
    Nov 7, 2015
    Don't give a shit about Disney. They blew up the EU, with Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Darth Bane, Revan and Mand'alor the Ultimate, so why should I care about their Star Wars fan-fiction?
     
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  4. Juza The Cloud

    Juza The Cloud Nanto Goshasei

    606
    Jun 3, 2015
    I too lament Naga Saddow and all the good work of Dark Horse Tales of the Jedi series.
     
  5. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I've read about the spoilers and it sounds pretty dreadful, if what I read is true than is this relevant?
    image.jpeg
     
  6. Khannis

    Khannis Rebuilding America

    145
    Jul 3, 2015


    It isn't perfect, some of the details are wrong, but it's pretty damn close.

    That being said, it's not a bad movie, although the plot of the "actual" Expanded Universe about what a Episode VII would be (the twins, etc.) is still better.
     
  7. Plzstandbuy

    Plzstandbuy Lonely Drifter

    84
    Dec 7, 2015
    Saw it myself yesterday, and yes it basically uses the same plot as the 4th movie. And the Villains are woefully bad. Kylo Ren looks like that Jewish kid that always got made fun of in highschool, and (spoilers) there is some giant (literally) guy leading the first order. He is similar to a cliche giant troll or goblin of fantasy settings. He is thrown in there without explanation of who he is or where he came from.

    For some reason the Republics army is called the "resistance" and this First Order was able to build a Mega Ultra Death Star without them knowing. Its also never explained how they were able to, and how they transformed into the First Order from the Empire.

    Everyone in the First Order looks very young, like they just got out of College. I was expecting them to be led by the grizzled Moffs, and General/Admirals that remain from the former Empire.
    But their leaders were effeminate, barely into their twenties, who get their asses handed to them to the point of humiliation. And their leader is a giant cave troll named Snook (not joking).
     
  8. Khannis

    Khannis Rebuilding America

    145
    Jul 3, 2015
    I agree with most of your points, although you do realize Snoke wasn't a giant right? That was a hologram designed to portray him that way, you can see it by the flickering when the *spoilers* place is about the blow up.
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Just got back from watching it.... holy shit, I was amazed at how much this thing sucked.....

    Like, I joked about it being fan fiction, I was actually pretty predisposed to liking it.... but my joke was more than spot on..... my god, it even had the Mary Sue character that is mastering advanced Force techniques on a day..... and What the fuck was with that Kylo Ren guy's face? He looked nothing like either Leia or Han, did the Force make his ears and nose grow? His acting was actually better with the helmet on.

    The best part of the movie si at the very beginning, when it's not just remaking the first movie but worse....


    If the Starkiller absorbs the energy of the sun, wouldn't that just kill everyone on it? I know Star Wars isn't hard science but that's some absolutely retarded shit...


    Also that Rey girl was a complete Mary Sue, pulling jedi Mind Tricks, repelling a sith's mind invasion and beating him on light saber combat without having any trainning, after apparently living a life of thinking the Jedis are a Myth, on her first day using the Force.....
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
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  10. Plzstandbuy

    Plzstandbuy Lonely Drifter

    84
    Dec 7, 2015
    Yep, Rey was a textbook mary sue to the point where it was painful to watch. Finn is comedic relief (possibly token black character to get diversity points?) also cringed at how quickly he became selflessly devoted to Rey compounds on the Mary Sue cliche, and Poe is... ?

    The movie was super fast paced, with MOAR ACTION!!!111 every two seconds, cause fuck good writing and fleshing out the plot and setting.
     
  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Rey also got attached to Han Solo way too fast... Like seriously, they barely had 30 minutes of screen time before she apparently felt that Solo was her father figure.... this girl must be extremely needy....
     
  12. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I just got back from the movie, and I think it really only needed to do two things:
    1) Apologize for the prequels.
    2) Get people invested in the characters or the story getting forward.

    I think it pulled that off, but not a lot more. Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren I thought were interesting enough characters to get me to see the next one. It's really just everything JJ Abrams always does right and wrong: excellent casting, good characters, terrible plotting, but feels good in the moment.
     
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  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Really a bit of a nerd comment but from what I recall the Death Star I and II made use of hypermatter reactors (fictional pablium energy source) to generate the energy for the Super Laser, and that the reactor generated more energy than a star does (not sure if that was in a year or during the entire lifespan of a star).
    The new writers are free to do what they want as they are now the makers of the canon but in the old canon Starkiller base would be considered incapable of the firepower that is attributed to it.

    Anyway I was a fan of the original Star Wars universe and the old Expanded Universe up to 1999 (exceptions being Jedi Knight Outcast and Jedi Academy), but after the prequels and its spin off animation series I realized what road the franchise would be travelling.
    To me the magic of the Star Wars Universe is over, the signs were there in Return of the Jedi when it became obvious that SW was more about merchandising than telling a good story. The books, RPG modules and video games kept the old spirit alive for a while but the prequels completed the transformation (though I agree with a friend of mine that the prequels should not have been copies of Episodes IV-VI and that the premise of the Republic at war before becoming the Empire was a good way to go), and Star Wars VII simply continues along that path.

    I had not interest in watching Star Wars VII when I heard Abrams would be directing it (I still have not forgiven him for what he did to Star Trek) and already had the sneaking suspicion that the writers would not get the story or the spirit of the setting right (even if a veteran SW writer was on the team)
    What I read from reviews and the Wookieepedia article my expectations are confirmed, this Star Wars does nothing new and sticks to what is safe and done before, and as usual most of the audience swallows it without second thought.

    Still I have to admit that it does somewhat hurt to see Star Wars go down like this. It is not as if I wanted to see the franchise burn as I have fond memories of the original movies, the video games, the comics. It provided me with a lot of escapism in my youth, something I do honestly long for when my brain start running the big question scenario "What if there is nothing after death? It means you have wasted your life and have nothing if significance to show for it, let alone actually done something with it" again.

    I find it a bit difficult to fill up the spaces that were once occupied by Star Wars and Star Trek (or Fallout for that matter along with other creations). I hope some of the books someone is going to give me will fill my mind with new ideas and concepts that stimulate my imagination. (my friend Chris is going to send me Red Mars, The Long Earth, and The Engines of God)
    And fortunate there are still a lot of original comics produced by many creative writers and artists.
     
  14. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    The movie was ham fisted fan service and pandering.That said I'm willing to overlook a lot of that as I'm sure most meetings about the film included someone saying "Just don't mess it up," leading to a very play it safe attitude I'm hoping will not carry over to second. I will make a prediction that Poe and Fin will be an item by the 3rd film as the chemistry between them was way more natural than the one between Fin and Rey. Also it seemed they couldn't pay Harrison Ford enough to kiss Carrie Fischer, I'm not the only one that noticed that awkwardness am I?
     
  15. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    Considering that they've been estranged for possibly an extended period of time (basically since however long ago their kid went evil), had they gotten back together and been all lovey-dovey immediately it would have been awfully weird, particularly given how Han is characterized in the four films he appears in.
     
  16. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    The moment I'm referring to absolutely felt like a kiss her moment, only to have Han pat her head and hug her.
     
  17. Avallach

    Avallach Ayreonaut

    153
    Aug 11, 2009
    The film was alright. But yeah, I agree with Walkpnut - wasn't a big fan of how ham-fistedly they've made Rey into such a Mary Sue.

    Luke in the old trilogy was an awesome character because he was always messing up and needing help.

    Let's look at all of the weaknesses of Luke:

    A New Hope
    -He gets beaten up by the sand people and gets saved by Obi-Wan.
    -He is about to be murdered in the bar at Mos Eisley until Obi Wan saves him again.
    Empire Strikes Back
    -He gets captured by the Wampa and gets saved by Han Solo.
    -He also could barely use the force to grab his lightsaber.
    -He gets owned by Darth Vader, loses his hand and gets saved by Leia .
    Return of the Jedi
    -He messes up at Jabba's palace.
    -Loses against the Emperor and gets saved by his father.

    Now let's look at Rey...

    Weaknesses:

    .......

    Strengths:
    -Crack pilot.
    -Good with a blaster.
    -Genius mechanic who knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Han Solo.
    -Better with a lightsaber than Kylo Ren who was trained by Luke and by Snoke and has years of practice.
    -Faster at learning the Force than Luke Skywalker. It took Luke 2 movies to learn how to use the force to grab his lightsaber. Rey learns that trick in minutes and is better at it too.
    -Overpowered Kylo Ren with the force during interogation.
    -Used Jedi Mind Tricks..

    Luke was a fuck up in the first two movies. How is it that Rey is never in danger and always stronger than everyone else without any development?

    Whatever happened to the Hero's journey of Joseph Campbell?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  18. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I really don't think Rey is any more of a "Mary Sue" than Luke was in Episode 4. Like her arc is more or less exactly the same as his was.
     
  19. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    The loss of an attention span in the target market; and the inability to respect anyone but an obvious badass.

    I have not seen the film yet, but it sounds like the entertainment industry is now using a common play-book; so expect this in ~everything to come, for a good long while. They'll use it for as long as it works.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  20. Avallach

    Avallach Ayreonaut

    153
    Aug 11, 2009
    I guess my problem is just with how she is portrayed.
    I mean, what did Rey every do in this movie that failed? What did Rey ever do in this movie that was questionable? Everything she touched turned to gold, and nothing she touched went awry. She has every skill set in the Star Wars universe, and heck... everyone likes her as well. I don't think Anakin, Luke, Kyle Katarn, Galen Marek, Ahsoka Tano or anyone else were ever written like this.

    She can fix the ships, fly the ships like a veteran fighter, dismantle the ships, sabotage the ships. She can communicate with Chewbacca and BB-8 while Finn/others can't. Chewbacca likes her, as mentioned by Han. She immediately views Han as a father figure. Han likes her, offers her a job. Finn falls in love with her. She's morally sound (doesn't give up BB-8, rescues Finn.) Repeat, rescues Finn again. Twice. (monster-dentata tenticle balls). Mind you, I can still get behind all this.

    But then she gets a gun from Han, thus assuming the pewpew hero role of Han. Get's Luke's saber, thus becoming the sword wielding hero role of Luke. Her gunslinging is questionable, but she's easily adept at sabering, defeating Kylo. She can use the force with ease. She can do Jedi mind tricks after two attempts. Levitate objects (better than a powerful sithlord) after one attempt. Defeat Kylo's mind bullets into her memory with her own mind bullets. Before all this, she was whipping around a staff to take out desert baddies. Even Galen Marek aka Starkiller, who was in EU considered to be the most powerful Force user ever (capable of bringing down Star Destroyers on his own) still had to be trained by Vader first to effectively utilize his abilities.

    Han and Finn plan a rescue, ala Episode 4 (even though this whole movie kinda feels like an Episode 4) and she rescues herself. Rey solved basically every problem in the film.

    Now before someone comes to conclusions and accuses me of being "sexist", know that I would be ranting the same if her roles with Finn were reversed. I just don't really feel the main character because there seems to be a lack of any struggle for her.

    I loved Luke and to some extent Anakin as main characters because they didn't always win and you could see how they've grown and progressed with each movie. Even Obi-Wan who did some very questionable choices throughout the entire series was still my favourite because of that. But Rey literally defeats the first big bad of the entire movie and makes him look like a snot-nosed punk (which he was, sure. But I still felt kinda dissapointed to see how the super overhyped Kylo Ren ended up).

    Err... you didn't see the movie yet? Did I just pretty much spoiled the entire thing for you? Sorry for that. I mean, if you actually planned to see them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015