Every time again ... E3 rant topic.

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Vault Fossil

    Jun 15, 2015
    I wouldn't mind seeing more female characters in games and movies. The problem I do have with them is that writers today don't know how to write female characters. They are almost, always written as Mary-Sue's "who don't need no man", have no flaws, and can do no wrong. I miss when female characters, like their male counterparts, had flaws and character arcs. Now every female character has to be like Alice from those awful Resident Evil movies.
     
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  2. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...ssTUAhVHV7wKHdJ7C1UQ_AUICigB&biw=1680&bih=920

    Oh hey.

    Looks like the VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST VAST majority of people who fought were.

    *Gasp*

    Caucasian?

    That can't be!

    The fucking nazi swine whitewashed WW1!

    WE.

    WUZ.

    SOLDIERS.
     
  3. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Vault Fossil

    Jun 15, 2015
    I think the problem is that it shows black soldiers fighting alongside white soldiers. From what I know from history, black soldiers where segregated from the white soldiers. If one of the missions was about a squad of black soldiers fighting Germans in WWI then from a historical perspective I would be fine with it. The problem is is that EA(and Activision too) are trying to rewrite history. We can't have all the yucky parts from history like segregation, swastikas, or women mostly serving in noncombat support roles. Nope! There was no segregation! What swastikas? Nazi's didn't have a symbol that they rally behind. And women served on the front lines and were badass ass kickers more so then the men! To me this is a disservices and an insult to many of those soldiers who fought in these wars and also a insult to the black soldiers who had to struggle with the racial politics of the times.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  4. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    And?

    You know who was also a small part of the WW1 conflicts? Biplane pilots.

    We do media about them all the time.

    Oh and Battlefield only had a few missions about the Harlem Hammers.

    I admit, I am hoping the Major will show some flaws other than being a psychotic zealot. I always liked Bastilla Shan because she was a character who had a three-dimensional character arc in KOTOR.
     
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  5. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Hell, even Alice is a decent example of a female character because it's relevant that she is, whith maternity being a "theme" throughout. Clones of yourself when you're a woman are extra fucked up when you think about it,

    What I find is that, in 99% the stories, the character being a woman... Changes nothing, and deep down it's just a dude.

    In Star Wars itself: characters like Leia, Padme, Amidala, Ventress, and an array from Clone Wars; could not be men without changing the character from its roots. Meanwhile, Rei or Jyn are... Luke with tits. Well, and being perfect but crying all the time because they feel like they aren't.

    Hell, seen any "gender swap" in something? Adventure Time or Shovel Knight, for example. The personality changes a bit and of course the design, but it's all largely the same. And it's alright because, deep down, a competent team makes the genders normally just fit their design, dialogue or whatever, to make a better more coherent story.

    You don't do that by forcing it in whatever bland character so it's a selling point for idiots and raising dust in the media. Which is the case here.

    They could have done it so that women have an extremely hard time in the Empire (sorry, FIRST ORDER) ranks, but we don't really know, and so it'd justify that the character is so terribly competent (because it will). Maybe her mother was the only one another high ranking female officer in history of the organization. Maybe her brother is always sent to the ones before her and you have to look for him every damn time, until you don't. Or nothing, actually. As I said, it doesn't need any of this to be a good story.

    It fascinates me that you appreciate more a pair of jugs in a 3D model just being there than whatever it might do or say. It explains a lot, actually.
     
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  6. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Yes cause it's called pandering and the characters end up being shit cause of it. There's nothing interesting about putting in a female protagonist if all she's about is "I'm stronk and independent and ain't need no man", now if she had a personality and wasn't just put in there cause "It's her turn now cause vagina" it would be different.


    I don't, adding in some black people "just cause" is silly. It just screams pandering and gives me a reason not to bother with said media, you should know that just adding in a black person or a woman into something like that doesn't automatically make it better. That's not how it works, that's not how it works at all.
     
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  7. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    From gameplay I have seen, almost every god damned german seems to be non german.

    Multiplayer, mind you.

    But they are such a gross outlier in reality in WW1, that its insulting that they pandered to WE WUZ KANGS.
     
  8. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    HOL UP *smacks lips* That's racist. You're not allowed to criticize any of this, it's 2017.
    That makes you a neo-nazi to do such an evil thing.

    In all seriousness though you can't comment on things like this without the PC police coming in. I remember when they had the black dude with the super hero looking cape in some "bad ass" stance for the cover. Was just retarded. What ever happened to well written characters that weren't just based on race, sex, sexual orientation, or (((current year)))?
     
  9. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    I can't fucking stand this PC bullshit nowadays.

    Not only are MALE ORIENTED fucking FPS's like CoD being turned into PC bullshit, franchises I loved like Starwars too...

    Thank god they can't erase the original trilogy...

    Wait.

    Can...

    Can they?
     
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  10. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Yes, because white male gamers can only enjoy games with white male protagonists.

    Clearly I'm an insane outlier because I like to play Lara Croft and am excited about this game.

    Speaking as a writer, sometimes being a male or female in a character role changes everything and sometimes it doesn't. Well-written characters incorporate all of a character's backstory into the story and makes a more three-dimensional character as a result.

    In the case of making the protagonist of Battlefront 2 into a woman POC, it makes a statement in the context the Empire is against aliens rather than women or race. It shouldn't have to be said but Finn got enormous amounts of shit from fans over the fact he was a black stormtrooper. John Boyega even asked, "Wait, is that even legal?"

    In terms of the character, though, I don't think the fact she's a woman POC is going to matter much as those kind of distinctions don't matter much in the galaxy-far far away. So, you may ask, "Why make her a female POC at all then?" Well, why not? Is it always going to be pandering to not do a white male? Is there any circumstances where they can just do it because they feel like it?

    I do, however, think erasure is in a thing. If you create an entirely white culture in a galaxy far far away that's making a statement just because you've chosen to frame it that way. If every single officer of the Empire is a white and male, some sexism and racism is implied by that. Because, otherwise, why would that be the case? Visual storytelling tells a story.

    In the case of Rey, I actually think she's got some severe flaws as a character in they just gave her all of the abilities worked for (albeit only for a couple of weeks on Dagobah). However, that's really my only complaint about her as without force powers, she's a perfectly fine character. Her sex also does play a role in the movie as well given that Finn goes to stupid lengths to try and impress her almost gets himself killed trying to rescue her and getting mistaken for one of her attackers.

    Jyn? I don't think her sex actually matters much as a character and she could have been switched or any of the characters' switched gender wise. Her father could have been her mother and so on. Sadly, I think of Jyn and virtually the entire cast but Chirrut and K2SO to be completely flat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  11. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Did I say I only enjoyed white protagonists?

    Maybe if people stoppped pushing trans-black-genderqueer shit on everyone else, poeple would not be so god damned pissed off that all their favourite franchises and characters are now black women.
     
  12. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Actually, I am curious about examples other than Battlefield.

    Which, notably, isn't a game solely about one specific Black protagonist.
     
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  13. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Do you happen to be psychotic or in some state of denial? Are issues based around adversity and the human condition NOT universal? Can we only look up and indentify with people of our same sex?
    No, one can only do so when they share physical circumstances, RIGHT?

    Hell, why d you think that genders are so often changed in the writing and development of productions? It really, really doesn't matter when you're at it.

    Tell me, WHAT does having a colorful rainbow of characters matter in a game where they all speak esentially the same, play, move, run, jump and take as many hits as everyone else?
     
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  14. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Nearly every action movie nowadays is 100 pound girls judo flipping 200 pound men while the overall message is "GURLZ RULZ".

    Meanwhile guys are massacred in films en masse by said girls.

    Yeah, that's fair for guys.

    When was the last movie where nerdy useless guy massacres muscular women, while the plot is 'Guyz are bestest'?
     
  15. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Oh, I didn't say to you or CT in particular. It doesn't matter that it's "fair" or not as long as teh story is competent.

    Also

    Okay then - let's say that every game should let you pick your gender as long as their gender isn't hugely central to the plot. Wait, that sounded weird. Games in which gender doesn't matter should let you choose your gender? If the gender doesn't matter, why should we care? Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them. To demand diversity for characters that are essentially blank placeholders is to put way more thought into it than the creator did.

    -Yahtzee on GamerGate
     
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  16. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    So, Underworld, Resident Evil, and Star Wars.

    Yes, this is a pandemic.
     
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  17. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    You're forgetting most TV shows nowadays, and countless movies.
     
  18. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Anyway... I'm gonna get at making the podcast "script". I'm just gonna put every announced thing in orderm cut off some other thing and then move those around to make the cast not just a list. Any more ideas?
     
  19. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    405
    Apr 18, 2015

    Isn't that the chick who found out about the paid mods and shit and got upset/disgusted with Bethesda or some shit? Also, LOL So what I'm getting from that is basically once you're signed, you're Bethesda's bitch and you cannot give those mods into the nexus for people to enjoy. Ohhhh boy.
     
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  20. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I'm not arguing for gender-fluid characters; in fact, not acknowledging character traits like gender can be bad and makes the story feel soulless since the characters would be nothing more than blank slates. All I am saying is that gender ought to not be used as mere tools to promote something and that if gender is used, actually do something with it. For instance, actually develop something or properly use it. Bring in new perspectives etc.

    If the perspective of that female Imperial soldier alongside other Imperials with complete loyalty to the Empire brings more insight to the attitudes and ideologies of the current canon for the Empire/First Order (due to having actual personality) along with ideas on how the First Order operates beyond the films and book (or books?), I'd be pleased. If the writers do a lot more, that would be great. It may even make up for the first EAfront.

    However, I would not be pleased if the female soldier was an insignificant speck who's only purpose was for marketing and drawing in people who think representation is being done rather than seeing the corporate methodology of formulaic manipulation by using token representation.

    EDIT: @Arnust has it right. The story and writing is more important overall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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