Google and Verizon vs The Internet

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    There is some serious shit going down right now with Google and Verizon. I recommend you read one of the articles below , but here's a quick snippet from the first:




    Link1
    Link2
    Link3


    I'm not surprised in the least that Verizon is part of this shady deal, or even that Google has completely sold out like that. I'm just shocked this is happening so soon. We've all heard the internet doomsday scenarios about this sort of thing, but who would have thought it was right around the corner?

    Once they go through with it, you know other ISPs will jump on-board and do the same damned thing.
     
  2. SkuLL

    SkuLL Chad McRealman Orderite

    Sep 6, 2009
    Uh... bullshit?
     
  3. Patrol199

    Patrol199 First time out of the vault

    5
    Aug 13, 2010
    No way, this must be some bullshit.
     
  4. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Yeah, see, this is all called "jumping to conclusions" on what will and will not happen.

    Besides that "the internet" is not affected by this. Verizon customers are.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    thank god I have nothing to do with verizon then.
     
  6. SkuLL

    SkuLL Chad McRealman Orderite

    Sep 6, 2009
    Quick, lets downlaod it all be4 the makes Inturnet illegal!!1

     
  7. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    There has been a LOT of speculation about this for a while now. And nearly everyone jumped to conclusions and was proven wrong within 2 days.

    So let's just wait a moment and see what's really going on, shall we?
     
  8. Guiltyofbeingtrite

    Guiltyofbeingtrite Vault Dweller

    751
    Oct 13, 2008
    From Google's Blog

    "MYTH: This proposal would eliminate network neutrality over wireless.

    FACT: It’s true that Google previously has advocated for certain openness safeguards to be applied in a similar fashion to what would be applied to wireline services. However, in the spirit of compromise, we have agreed to a proposal that allows this market to remain free from regulation for now, while Congress keeps a watchful eye.

    Bolding is my own.

    http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/


    It shouldn't matter which medium you choose. And I don't think I'll be renewing my Verizon contract.

    What happens when all internet is wireless?
     
  9. Patrol199

    Patrol199 First time out of the vault

    5
    Aug 13, 2010
    Well, since I don't use verizon or whatever that is, I don't care.
     
  10. DirkGently

    DirkGently Still Mildly Glowing

    296
    Jun 2, 2010
    Of everyone who would mess up net neutrality, I think google would be at the bottom of the list. Hasn't Virgin been talking about doing this for years?
     
  11. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    How would this be new? Pay €30 and you get 30GB, pay €40 and you get 80. Add €10 and you get a wireless connection. Add €5 to get access to movies at €1 per movie and €6 to get some online storage space. Whatever. It all costs something already.

    I'm sure they'll add more pricey "services" soon enough and some companies will group these services and get rich that way, but what's new? Like anyone would freak out about it. Just pay the bill and be calm, just like you always do.

    How public is the internet really? Do you really feel free over here? I don't. It's constant conditioning coming from all corners, in all shapes and colours, in sound and 3D. It's as controlled and managed as any other service out there. You are a bit naive if you think the internet belongs to the public. Drones.
     
  12. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Yeah, that only happens in Belgium.
     
  13. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    I think this highlights the problem with trying to institute governmental and corporate power within what is a global network, since the only way to really do it is to compartmentalise things, which is completely against the spirit of the Internet as we have come to know it.

    We all knew this shit was coming, but I kind of held out hope that someone would have more sense to keep things free and open. Money speaks louder than ethics, I guess.

    Oh well, whatever. I've been saying for years that the Internet is dead. We need a new communications network. I'll meet you guys in the collective consciousness.
     
  14. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Down here, you have two options for good, high speed internet. Road Runner and Verizon; with Verizon being the fastest for the best price (We don't have that draconian bandwidth limiting shit here).

    Take Verizon out of the equation and we're left with one good ISP.
     
  15. fedaykin

    fedaykin Vault Fossil

    Jul 15, 2007
    I don't see why all providers would jump on board. Some would definitely keep offering the same old service, and customers would probably flock to them, since they would be the ones offering the biggest bang for a buck.
     
  16. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Of course they'd jump on board. They'd do it for the same reason the big LCD manufacturers were conspiring amongst eachother to illegally fix prices:

    Money, and lots of it.

    Why wouldn't they go with the tiered approach, and then just sell the old service on the side as an "unlimited" plan (while jacking up the prices a healthy margin, of course)?
     
  17. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    They wouldn't do that if it meant they'd get outcompeted by other providers not doing that.
     
  18. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    Well, a tiered Internet means that certain people have access to some content, and certain people don't. A company like Verizon is very powerful and has lots of connections - it's not unthinkable to see them offering stuff like unlimited streaming episodes of TV shows, exclusive bonus media and just plain faster downloads (yes, that's right, your "regular" Internet will become slower as your service is made a low priority). If Verizon is able to harness or create must-have content then they have a competitive advantage, and effectively they have their own private section of the Internet where premium users are offered better service.

    Of course, you might be thinking, "how do they get better service? can't we get anything on the Internet?" The simple fact is that they can do this not by making the premium service better than what we already have, but by withholding improvements to the regular service, or even by offering inferior service to what we have now. It wouldn't make much sense to offer premium members episodes of Lost if the regular members could just go to any old web site and watch them, so expect to see heavy traffic shaping and restrictions on what you can and can't do unless you want to pay more.

    It's evil as hell, sure, but get enough large companies in, sign enough deals so that the premium content is desirable, offer shitty service for regular users, and then use your Monopoly Powers to stifle small competitors who don't use tiered practices... you might not get everyone, but services like iTunes show that many people would rather pay money than deal with the likes of BitTorrent and other alternatives. The same most definitely applies to TV, movies and games. These telecoms draw absolutely massive profits from people as it is, often because they have no other choice if they want to get online, and anything else they can make on top of it is just gravy. Even if 10% of people sign up for this, it'll mean millions and millions in pure profit.
     
  19. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    i dont live in china or austrailia like you do :)


    and sea... i got 1 abbreviation for you which is 3 words...

    QOS


    Quality of Service

    its a mechanisim on hardware to guarentee mission critical data.

    voice is typically 2-3, management data is 4-5 and user data is usually around 8-9

    all they really have to do is set the QOS value of these "premium" users to something like 2-3 and all of a sudden your packets get treated like royalty...

    routers/switches prioritize data based on the QOS value... the lower the QOS value, the faster your data moves through the network.

    QOS allows you to change the FIFO order most packets take. in the packet its labeled something like priority or such

    when a packet for your ip enters the system such as your default gateway, it would just tag your packet as a relatively low priority, or when a packet for your IP enters the system it would get re-tagged with a low priority.

    also, not only does the lower priority packet get serviced first on the individual devices, it could also allow for priority routing through their network and give you access to routing links not available for "normal" users.
     
  20. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    Where do you live? Is it sort of "out in the boonies" or is it a more metropolitan area? Weird to me that you'd only have two options for internet access.

    As for the topic, yeah I saw that a little while ago. It may or may not mean anything of significance... it just depends on what exactly comes out of this agreement Google and Verizon has. At worst, I may just stop using Google's services, utilize NoScript to make sure none of Google's scripts are running on any website I visit, and not use Verizon's services (which I don't use anyway). As Sander said, it's not likely that all the other ISPs will jump on board simply because any that don't will easily out compete those that do. If they all collude, I think there'll be a huge backlash and legal proceedings before long.