My issues with New Vegas

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Threepwood, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Without the intention to start a "what gameplay is better" discussion I just want to sayt hat what you call a "vessel" is for some indeed very important. As it gives us a different experience. NOw I would never want every game to become a birds view or either tourn based. Letz be honest and realistic here. But once I remember that gamevelopers offered diversity. A time when companies like Interplay managed to make games that do not feel alike. Blood & Magic was not comparable to Messiah or Fallout. Now when looking to a company like Bethesda. It seems like all they can do is use "their" formula and squeze anything inside it, regardless if its usefull or not. And this does not only count for the gameplay but the way how the game feels (like how the quests look and feel).

    For many of us the gameplay is like sport. Hands down both football and baseball are 2 sports. They have movements, balls and they are good for your health. But it are 2 different games which offer completely different experience. No one with half a brain would seriously come up with the idea that either Baseball or Football is inherently better then the other. Yet thats exactly what many do with gameply, claiming real time is ALWAYS better then tourn based. Tourn Based is today a very small niche market. But that doesnt mean its a bad gameplay. It just offers a different perspective. I could never imagine doom beeing anything else then a shooter just as I could never imagine the ideal Fallout beeing anything else then tourn based. But thats just me.
     
  2. Innawerkz

    Innawerkz First time out of the vault

    88
    Feb 23, 2010
    Felt the same way about Mario with Mario 3 being my favorite all-time of the series. Then I was playing Galaxy 2 with my son and was pretty blown away by the gameplay. Still incorporated all of the original elements that made them addictive, but put it into a superior format that allowed them more options to create puzzles/worlds in a vastly more attractive fashion.

    I am in no way suggesting that this was accomplished with the move to first person in 'Fallout 3'. Just saying that, in the right hands, untouchable classics can be reworked to become superior where gameplay has changed dramatically. Unfortunately for the isometric/turn-based purists, it will be very difficult for Zenimax/Bethesda to justify rebooting the gameplay on the heels of a $300 Million takedown.

    One can only hope they will refine this approach the same way I have seen a big step in quality from Mario Sunshine (if that's the waterpack one) to Galaxy 2.
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    mario is not a good example, as basicaly any game that just has his face can be considered "part" of the whole experience.

    I am not saying that certain changes like a 3D perspective or even first- person are inherently bad. It just starts to be bad when you dont get shown anything else.

    I mean how many "birds view" RPGs have been developed recently to "third person-first person" kind of games. THe traditional birds view (if you want to call it that way) as it was present in Diablo, Diablo 2, Baldurs Gate, Fallout, Arcanum, Planescape, and many more. Those kind of games are dissapearing and its a myth to say the jump to "3D" is the cause of it, as even with a very great and nice looking engine you st ill can get the feeling of a birds view perspective ... I mena com on thats how most RTS games work !

    Also, even a tourn based game can be done with it. And it did it pretty well. Now imagine a game like that but with the best visuals available.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6-5BEs7-kM[/youtube]
     
  4. Innawerkz

    Innawerkz First time out of the vault

    88
    Feb 23, 2010
    I don't disagree. I am still on the hunt for information about Jagged Alliance 3 as I load up my JA2 1.13 version for its annual playthrough. I would also happily donate money to help fund a remake of X-COM exactly how it was just with a reasonable graphical update and clocked to work on current systems. I realize these aren't RPG's in any sense, but the presentation was identical and - like you - I cannot imagine them being played from any other perspective - even if you could manipulate the gameplay into cheap firefights (just like FO1/2).

    Two of the more clever games I have seen in recent history were simple 2D games: Braid & LIMBO. Both critically well-recieved with inspired design. Small-scale, but someone is putting them out there. I can only hope the current mindset that everything needs to be presented in First Person or a tight third person (Gears of War/Dead Space) is a fad where - eventually - the pendulum will begin to swing the other way a bit and 'groundbreaking gameplay' will simply be a return to some classical concepts of design.

    I'm guessing that 'true' RPG formats won't see widespread acceptance/release until consoles support (demand?) the inclusion of a keyboard & mouse. Kinect & Move make me think this isn't on the immediate horizon.

    (although Halo Wars did an admirable job bringing a playable RTS to the consoles even if it lacked meaningful depth)
     
  5. yester64

    yester64 First time out of the vault

    37
    Dec 14, 2008
    My issues with the game are purely technical so far.
    To many glitches and freezes.

    And long loading times. :(
     
  6. Guiltyofbeingtrite

    Guiltyofbeingtrite Vault Dweller

    751
    Oct 13, 2008
    Is it just me or are there like 4 weapons you can craft, and all thrown explosive weapons? Why did I stockpile all of these fusion batteries, conductors, pilot lights, etc?
     
  7. Cromlech

    Cromlech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    110
    Dec 8, 2007
    I stockpile them for the caps (easy source of money once you have long haul to fast travel while 'overencumbered'.

    Fission Batteries can be used in Cass' Moonshine.

    I suppose it would be nice if some more of the hardware could be made into useful things. Maybe a variation of the rock-it-launcher, some kind of funky energy weapon?
     
  8. Erny

    Erny It Wandered In From the Wastes

    180
    Nov 2, 2008
    My biggest issue with NV is that it doesnt feel like Fallout at all. Clean civilized Vegas, all the cowboy\western stuff, totaly comic-looking securitrons. Mutants are now even more a comic relief than ever, instead of being a scary mighty force or shunned outcasts. But worst of all is the Legion - wtf is that, I dont see it fitting into Fallout setting at all.
    As much as Fo3 wasnt a Fallout RPG, more a sandbox shooter in Fallout setting, NV feels even less Fallout, even if it offers more freedom and rolepaly. NV is not even a coherent believable world.
    Im not a zealous classic Fallout fan btw.

    Yeah, crafting is very underdeveloped and underused. I only botherd to make repair kits.
    Cooking is only worthy for venoms for melee chars - and thats the only worthy reason to level up otherwise useless Survival skill. meh...
    Bullet conversion is very handy tho.
     
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Funny. I must be the luckiest guy in the universe as I never experienced any serious issues with Vegas as it just crashed 1 or 2 times even with tons of mods and changes with the geeck which doesnt mean the game is not bugy as hell. Just that I am very happy it works for me :mrgreen:
     
  10. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Have you even played the originals?
     
  11. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003


    I suppose you consider Fallout 3 an example of a coherent, believeable world?
     
  12. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    240
    Jan 20, 2009
    In order:

    - Remember the clean, civilized Vault City?
    - It's in the west!
    - Because the "Danger Will Robinson!" robots weren't comic-looking? Fallout is meant to reflect 50s pulp sci fi SCIENCE!
    - Super-mutants aren't a scary mighty force because they're not a scary mighty force! You fixed that in Fallout 1!
    - You know the Legion was in Van Buren, too, right?
    - Fallout 3 was in a Fallout setting?
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    just cause the legion was mentioned in VB doesnt mean they suddenly fit to the Fallout setting well not in the way they are shown in Vegas anyway. But thats my oppinion.
     
  14. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    I think the Legion should have been portrayed in a very different manner.

    I think it should have been a smaller group, composed of elite troops, with advanced technology, using say, salvaged power armor, people with a bit of arm gaurd, gauntlets, helmets etc.

    When were the Romans ever flippant or stubbon or backwards in regards to technoligy? They built aquaducts, sewers, roads, ballistas, fortress's, the fact Ceaser want's very little to do with technoligy, especially medicine, is just nonsensical.

    -And, get rid of the fucking sports equipment -.-
     
  15. Bad_Karma

    Bad_Karma Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    364
    Jun 17, 2007
    My personal issues with NV were mostly how the Legion and the strip were done.

    The Legion could have been a lot more beliveable and less of something that seemed to be only evil, without any Utility for anyone who seems to be working with them or even living in their territory.

    Also the Strip seems a bit to odd for my taste, but the Strip is much less of a problem as the Legion.

    But overall it's much better than F3, with the main-quest being centered around following a character i dind't felt emotional connected too for a single second.
     
  16. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    207
    Sep 26, 2008
    1. You need to go replay Fallout 2 --> that game drips country western / cowboy (hell, you can become the sheriff of Redding). Granted, it moves on into the gangster stuff and eventually into the S.F. stuff. .. but it's there.

    2. The legion are the most "original Fallout series" stuff in the game since they came right out of the Van Buren design doc. In other words, if Fallout 3 had been made by Black Isles you would have met them there.

    But you can't say they're "UnFallout" as the definition is established outside your own prerogatives.
     
  17. Erny

    Erny It Wandered In From the Wastes

    180
    Nov 2, 2008
    Yes I know, Fallout2 had nice clean civil towns like Vault City, partly SnaFran and NCR even had green trees. Still it had bigger share of ruined and "sci fi" parts. And Fallout1 was even more of a post-apocalyptic world which I loved.
    Its is my personal bias, I dont like NV being less futuristic and less post-apocalyptic. I hated the Strip and everything about the Legion but liked Freeside and Repcon rocket facility for example.

    VanBuren doesn't even exist as a finished game, I dont see it being relevant. And it doesn't make Legion any less ridiculous.
    Other games had the Enclave with all its tech or the mighty supermutants as the main enemies and here we have ... freaks in football vests and skirts with throwing spears?
    I would probably loved this game more if it simply had Enclave instead of the Legion.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Slavers with a roman fetish ? I dont know what is fallout, but I know they are not.

    Of course those are my rules
     
  19. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Yeah, culture being twisted and historical figures immitated! Yeah, that's not a running theme in Fallout what so ever. You go get em' tiger.
     
  20. UncleSlappy

    UncleSlappy First time out of the vault

    48
    Jun 2, 2009
    True I remember how the Khans dressed up like Mongols and spoke Mongolian and eschewed most guns and tech because hey Mongols didn't have all that stuff.

    Oh wait. That didn't happen.