NMA's General Consensus Debates

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Reaper Shackal, Jun 27, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    As you can probably tell, that's not exactly necessary. Every space fills a niche, and if there's no niche to fill, it dies out on its own. This topic seems to have found its discussion-worthy material in very short order. But yeah, for the future, it's a pretty good rule of thumb to go by that unless you're sure it hasn't been said before, you probably don't need a new topic. =)
     
  2. Reaper Shackal

    Reaper Shackal King of the Dominion

    71
    Jun 19, 2015
    Thanks for the advice.
     
  3. Battlecross

    Battlecross Banned

    730
    Jun 17, 2015
    Thinking your fan-ness makes you less ignorant than another fan might actually make you the ignorant one, but explaining that to you would be like talking to a wall.
     
  4. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    You're only proving your own ignorance, my friend. Please continue.

    The funniest thing I notice about Bethesda fans these days is that many of them seem literally incapable of playing the original Fallouts. Those games are simply too difficult for them to figure out. And I'm not talking about the challenge of playing the game (although that's often a problem too), I'm talking about the mechanics, interface, and the general way things work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2015
  5. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    To be fair, we're talking about AGE GROUPS, here. For kids who grew up on games from the last 10-15 years, shift that actually demands of you your patience and cunning is a very alien concept to them. Fans of the originals are, simply, older on average than fans of the new *cough* stuff.

    But I also think it's worth noting that you're just a BIT too harsh, Wolf. There's no sense in letting someone goad you into being rude; just let them be the winner of their own personal dick-measuring contest, and occupy something actually worth your time while they waste theirs. Actually, that should apply to EVERYONE. Care more about yourself, less about others, and the world will magically become a really nice place. But I digress...

    Earlier you said this:
    For starters, again, just a BIT too harsh. There's plenty of other reasons, like personal taste. It's the "Family Guy or South Park?" scernario. Some people just don't care for sophistication and a well-crafted story and consistency and relatable characters. Some people just want their Family Guy fix. If they want a hiking simulator with countless amounts of randomly generated useless loot to placate them instead of a challenging game with valuable rewards at the end of every challenge and an engaging story, let them have their fun. I'll prefer my satisfying and rewarding experience with a great narrative, let them have their hiking simulator.

    By all means, you have every right to take issue with them confusing one for the other, because they both share the name "Fallout", but it's not necessarily ENTIRELY because they're ignorant. Perhaps they just prefer that simple whatever. I know *I* can't make sense of it, but I realize it's a matter of taste. Sure, PLENTY are totally ignorant. Just not every one of them, that's all I'm saying.

    But what occurred to me, when I read that, was how it's more depressing than we can actually realize, if you think about it. I've said many great things about Jim Sterling over the years, having grown to really appreciate his work, but around the time of this year's E3, I've grown very jaded with his message. This is largely to do with his podcast, The Podquisition, which features himself and 2 other hosts, Laura Kate and Gavin Dunne, where they made increasing numbers of comments that really worried me. When The Witcher 3 came out, they praised it to high heaven, with Gavin going so far as to say how wonderful the writing is and just how spectacular of a story it is by the writing and characters alone, let along all that being attached to a great game. That made me think, despite NEVER playing any of the previous titles, that I ought to pick up TW3. But then when the FO4 trailer came out, they were all a buzz, talking about their thoughts. They made comments like "it looks SO MUCH like Fallout!" and "FINALLY, they've revealed that in this game, Dogmeat can't die! I'm SO happy!" and most horribly "I liked New Vegas as well. I think the writing was a bit better in New Vegas." BIT better? Gradually the more I listened to them, the more disgusted I was. And these are people (well, at least Jim is) I really looked up to in terms of their outlook on the gaming market. So hearing them obliviously praise the modern Bethesda aesthetic was really disheartening. It wasn't all bad, granted. Jim refused to let up on his stance that a game should NOT be praised for its blank slate compatibility with mods and that while mods are great, they should not excuse a shitty game underlying them. But somehow he missed how directly this applies to Bethesda's work.

    These are not ignorant people. Somehow, however, they still made those comments, with enough regularity that it broke my heart to listen to them. Nothing said was NEARLY as upsetting as listening to Movie Bob drone on while standing on his bullshit soap box, but still, hearing people with such respectable opinions saying such complimentary things about FO4, having BEEN to E3 and gotten all the details straight from the horse's mouth, was a sorry smack to the scrote.

    Seriously, YAY that Dogmeat cannot die? I was so HAPPY for FONV's Hardcore Mode enabling NPC death. The REASON Dogmeat was so endearing in FO1 was BECAUSE he could die and keeping him alive to the end was such a challenge. Bad enough that they made him "reincarnate" with a silly Perk in FO3, now he REALLY never dies? HOW can anyone think that's a good thing? ~_~
     
  6. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    475
    Nov 2, 2013
    So.. the captcha was too hard for them to crack? because I don't see many of those here.. In fact I see far more fans of the originals who are incapable of coming to terms with new reality and rant about kids..

    Taste imply choice, of which we have non of. Neither its an "OR scenario", you can play the originals and Beth reboot, and enjoy each one for what it offers...

    Some people just cling to the past, they are upset at the younger crowds who do not appreciate or even aware off the things that we grew upon, and thus they become cranky and pretentious in the way they deal with them.. Like it or not, there is only Beth titles on the horizon, which is the only thing that seem to bring breeze of fresh air in here.. and standing at the gate playing the old hermit isn't very sophisticated use of your time..
     
  7. Marionettetc

    Marionettetc Banned

    204
    May 15, 2013
    Reaper Shakal -

    I find it both endearing and nauseating at the same time that things like this even provoke you to create a thread about them.

    I'll break it down for you. You're a kid, you don't have the life experience to know that not only is the world filled with people with stupid opinions, you don't have acknowledge any of them. You don't have to participate in a discussion with idiots, only you make that choice.

    It's just like the greater life philosophy that life is only what you make of it. If you allow yourself to get bogged down in ridiculous discussions with stupid people, you've fucked up. Ignore them and move on. It's a little harder to do in real life, but extremely simple on a message board.

    If your ego has been insulted by me calling you a kid, feel free to ignore my post.
     
  8. Reaper Shackal

    Reaper Shackal King of the Dominion

    71
    Jun 19, 2015
    That escalated quickly.
     
  9. Battlecross

    Battlecross Banned

    730
    Jun 17, 2015
    Except that I have played the originals and have been playing video games for 2 decades and more. Kinda makes you look stupid and ignorant eh?
     
  10. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    Can't blame bethesda too much (although i did.. many times... and enjoyed it...very much). As terribad as their writing is, i don't think anyone could pull out a Fallout 1 and 2 type game, you just don't plan on doing such a game - there is no way to plan for greatness.

    The fact that bethesda doesn't care about tradition doesn't bother me anymore, however i'm looking for my father. Middle aged guy. Maybe you've seen him?
     
  11. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    Not really. Just because you're 30 or whatever and you've played Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 doesn't mean you know the history of Fallout, what Fallout was intended to be by the folks who originally created it, how Bethesda mangled it, or the disposition of Bethesda's backer, Zenimax. If I'm not mistaken all that information is archived here and there on this very site in the event you'd like to learn about it.

    Why would I want to come to terms with "the new reality?" Just because lots of people decide to accept garbage doesn't make it any less garbage. "The new reality" has no effect on my opinion one way or another.

    There's really only one reason I play games at all, only one reason I've ever played games, and that's because I believe they have the potential to become a great art form. Every now and then you can see glimmers of that potential deep down in certain titles - but not from Bethesda, because Bethesda is "the new reality" of games as pure commerce for the masses. You can see that in the way they've treated Fallout, the way they lie and manipulate the media, and the way they treat their business generally. Their customers are dollar signs to them, nothing more. If you believe otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

    The Black Isle gang were enthusiasts. An enthusiast is what I consider myself, and I see no reason to betray that.

    I can think of a less sophisticated use! Insulting the old hermit! That's productive.

    You have an entire internet full of "new reality" to stroke and affirm your position, but you're completely buggered by one or two people who disagree. Enjoy your Fallout 4 pre-order.

    FWIW, the entire premise of this thread is pretentious. I guess the "General Consensus Debates" weren't actually intended to be debates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  12. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I guess congratulations on understanding nothing of what I said? I've been through enough of your types that I won't even bother trying to help you anymore. If you can't be bothered to step down and read what was written and TRY to understand it, then I needn't bother wasting my time on that effort either.

    @UniversalWolf FWIW = For what it's worth, I'm guessing? Just checking, cause that's the first time I've seen that initialization.
     
  13. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    I am not sure if it is what you actually meant, but i am not sure you actually need to be young/old to like Fo2 or Fo3. It is more a matter of casual/mainstream vs commitment/niche/alternate medias thing. If i am not wrong, you aren't authorized to play or buy Fo3 if you are under 17. I think i was younger than 17 years old when i first played Fo1-Fo2. So both series of games are targetted to adults and young adults. Also, it isn't much a matter of when the games were released. When Fo1 & Fo2 were released, there were tons of shallow games like Fo3 and many people were playing them, just as there is still today some indie develloppers that dare to make some games that don't fit the norm established by AAA games. (and those indies were fewer before KS/digital distribution) There is audience for both, and blending is possible, when the indie game are entertaining enough and when the AAA games aren't utterly moronic...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well this community has a lot of posters that love the originals and thus F3 and Beth fans have a hard stance. But that really can't be a surprise for anyone, the focus of this community has always been F1 and F2 where F2 also saw it's fair share of criticizm. I mean seriously now, if I decide to register at some forum dedicated to classic music, Chopin, Mozart etc. and telling them that they live in the past because there are right now a shit ton more "pop-bands" out there and they have to confront the reality ... than I will get trolled.

    But this community has proven countless times that it CAN and WILL be civil when you treat it with respect. When the Beth developers still posted on NMA, they saw a lot of defence from trolling and I remember that the first contacts between the community and Beth was actually friendly. The issues came over time when people had more and more concerns about Fallout eventually ending up like Oblivion. One of the terms that became also here popular, Oblivion-with-guns, which Bethesda opposed defending their point that it will not be like Oblivion. And in the end it turned out that F3 IS more or less Oblivion with guns. But trolling them was never tollerated.

    Hmm. Yeah. Let us pretend like Obsidian never got a chance to work on a Fallout game. Or that Bethesda was not the only bidder on the Fallout licence back then. Or that Kick-Starter campaigns bringing this so called breeze of fresh air in old franchises don't exist.

    It is obvious, Bethesda is the leading direction now. And most people can accept that. Doesn't mean they have to shut up though and stop to criticize it - again even F2 saw a lot of critcism! By the way most people are in their late 20s. No clue what you see as "cranky". Let me take your most loved franchise/movie/band/sports team and turn it in to something you dislike.
     
  15. Battlecross

    Battlecross Banned

    730
    Jun 17, 2015
    No offense but you're totally ignoring the numerous people here who are blatantly disrespectful like the guy I'm quoting in this post. The "fans" who claim anyone who isn't the same type of fan as them is stupid or unintelligent, and I've seen that said here a bunch of times.

    Also, if a band/game/franchise turns into something you don't like, why would you endlessly talk about it? It makes no sense. For example I liked the band All That Remains until they went in a decidedly different direction, but I don't post on forums complaining about it. It accomplishes nothing, makes the complainer look sad and is really just annoying to have to see everywhere.


    Oh I know plenty, thanks. Also thanks for admitting your original point had no merit by the way. Keep claiming you're somehow a superior being because you subjectively enjoy something more than someone else. :ugly:
     
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    *shrugs* Feel free to leave. And that goes for everyone who doesn't like it to post here or read anything. I mean it seriously. Read the stuff you like and ignore the stuff you don't. On the flip side, if you feel there are disrespectfull people - aka trolling, than go to the mods. They usually don't tolerate trolling around here. No matter from which side it comes.

    I seriously don't really see where the problem is because this community is not a special snow flake and what you experience here will happen almost on every other community, particularly those that are old communities. That's why some of us come together here. It's like an old gentlemens club. There is a certain vibe we enjoy and that's why it is what it is. Complaining about it will get you nowhere. Really.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  17. Battlecross

    Battlecross Banned

    730
    Jun 17, 2015
    No, I'll stay and I'd rather tear the person's logic down with ease than be a tattle-tale personally. Also, if I should leave/ignore what I don't like then why does that logic not apply to something you're no longer a fan of?

    I keep asking this hoping for a cogent answer but haven't gotten one yet.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Maybe that's because you are asking the wrong questions. Don't you understand? You are literaly like donny here. Do you know what a donny is?

    Walter Sobchak: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

    You're simply out of your element. That's the problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  19. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    475
    Nov 2, 2013

    You need to ask yourself why are you here. The last "fallout" came almost two decades ago, and the "new" reality is that Beth own the IP and it taken it in a different direction.. meanwhile you have been coming here for that "garbage", willingly.


    As for the rest, I am sure you now all about that "stroke and affirm" stuff.. because your post paints you as ignorant of my position and the context of this thread creation. It would appear that you had a kneejerk reaction reading the deliberately non specific comments here, choose side and rushed to defend the father land..
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  20. Battlecross

    Battlecross Banned

    730
    Jun 17, 2015
    Real original using a Big Lebowski quote that makes no sense. I'm in my element, you're now trying to insult me because what you said made no sense at all. Try looking in a mirror, you may not know where you are anymore. First you claim no one is disrespectful and are proven wrong in this very thread which you ignored, then you can't come up with an answer for a simple question I gave and get upset about it.

    You're like the nihilists in the Big Lebowski, you claim you believe in nothing but you complain and care about everything. Boom. Reversed that shit!


    Pretty much nailed it here.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.