North Korea Invades the United States

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Tagaziel, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    I'm sorry but you are going to have to elaborate on that one, I'm not just granting it to you except you can tell me exactly how. And don't just give me "drones" because they don't render MBT's useless, specially a T-90 with the capability of blinding it's sensors and driving their hellfires to the ground.
     
  2. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Man Gonzales sure is grumpy. guess that vote on the Falklands really got to him.

    The days of Symmetrical warfare are gone. Tanks have reached the end of their technological tree as we know them. A T-90 ain't gonna stop a 30 pound white hot copper dart burning a hole in the side of it. and that only costs a couple hundred to build.

    My $80,000 shoulder mounter rocket can dump on your multimillion dollar tank.

    Deal with it.
     
  3. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    The Kontakt-5 armor on the T-90 is made specifically to defeat uranium APFSDS rounds, not to mention you don't need to stop it with armor when you can mess up the enemy tank's rangefinders with laser dazzlers.

    So did a soviet cheaply made RPG-7 to NATO tanks and NATO's LAW's to soviet tanks in the middle of cold war, but that didn't rendered them useless back then. Heck, german Panzerfausts could blow up an IS2 russian tank in WWII, and *that* didn't stop tanks from being used.

    So, you point being?

    And if you are talking about a shoulder fired ATGM then again the warning system on the T-90 would detect being painted by a laser and make the rocket hit the ground with the dazzlers.
     
  4. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    The F35 and F22 were hilarious boondoggles (planes that can't fly in the rain :toot:), but I'm still placing my bets on America if North Korea does go full retard.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What actually has this all to do with North Korea?

    Do they posses the Russian wondertanks? Did I said the US military is THE biggest force in the world - but there are NO doubts about their capabilities as they are one of the most advanced military forces.

    Maybe if we would be talking here about Israel which has an military which as far as technology goes is very similar to the US. But its North Korea. They could not even stand 24 Ours without support from Russia or China. And it is not very likely that they would get any in war. there simply is nothing either China or Russian can gain from them. Those times are over when it was more important to get some nation to use the political system you want. Now its about money and resources. And NK has neither of those.

    I might not know what the NK has in their arsenal. But considering the fact that the nation has only limited trading in the last 60 years I have serious doubts that they posses more military power then lets say the Iraq.

    Lets be realistic here.
     
  6. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    If you have no idea what I'm talking about you, then should stop trying to reply to it.
     
  7. Matthews

    Matthews It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Aug 29, 2012
    /cough
    Swedish airforce superior to American airforce
    http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1029-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-135.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeLqdKYlY4

    To be precise, Red Flag exercises, JAS 39 Gripen (Gryphon/Griffin) downed F-15, F-16 and F-18s with no losses, and even in certain aspects technologically superior to the F-22. Not bad for a itty-bitty country with no major economical resources to spend on military equipment.
    So North Korea could and probably would surprise quite a bit if cold "war" got hot and IF their R&D departments are up to speed despite sanctions.

    Now, I know that we weren't talking about airplanes, but air support is quite essential for warfare, thus my little addition. (Plus the swedish airplanes can start from small and bumpy roads as well, as shown here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoQtnugT6A4
    Ignore the language, it is just to show how bloody good we can do things.)

    Now... why am I up this late? I have early mornings and stumbled upon this darn thread. :P
     
  8. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    And if you have no idea what rhetoric is then you should stop posting here and pretty much anywhere else.

    The only shoulder fired anti tank weapon that can cost $80.000 is an ATGM, wich stands or anti tank guided missile, usually laser guided, older ones like a TOW are wire guided, in any case the Konat-5 armor can take it, plus if it's laser guided the T-90 can mess with it's guiding system preventing it to hit in the first place. In any case I wasn't really asking you what it was, not to mention that if it was actually anything else in the first place you failed to provide any info on what it might be other than the price, so, why don't you give me some technical data on this $80.000 piece of equipment and I'll tell you if the T-90's armor and defense systems can take it.

    It has more to do with your santa comment I quoted wich I found to be patronizing as hell.

    No, but the way you put it made suspect you implied it.

    The iraqi army in the first gulf was was a formidable force, the cunning and careful use of superior technology coupled with the tactics and training to use it from the US, decimated that force. The terrain also played an important role, pitting tanks designed for the short ranges of a central european theatre in a dessert theatre they were not designed for against tanks that had twice the firing range.

    In the second gulf war the iraqi military was the remains of that decimated and crippled force, and the US knew this pretty well.

    Now if you have a force like the original iraqi one, change the terrain to a mountain one rather than dessert, where long ranges no longer matter, and have an enemy that had plenty of time to prepare against the tactics and technology used by the US, then you stand a pretty good chance of, even if not winning the war, then causing some serious damage. Not to mention that the NK's can always go asymmetrical and use their few resources wisely.

    Also, most troops from the first gulf war will tell you that the training and tactics had more to do with victory than technology was. Saying things like that if the US were given the iraqi tanks and the iraqis the US tanks then the result would have still meant a victory for the US.

    Now, imagine someone attacking an helicopter with bows and arrows, you can either laugh at their pitiful attempt, or you can recognize the danger of someone having the guts of attacking an helicopter with bows and and arrows.

    So considering all that, I don't see the NK being a threat to the SK/US alliance in the south being a totally impossible scenario, even if unlikely.
     
  9. 4too

    4too Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 30, 2003
    Lord God Emperor Of The Old Dominion

    Lord God Emperor Of The Old Dominion






    There still existed a leader cult for MacArthur into the 1960's.


    Jamestown, Williamsburg, Luray Caverns, D.C. and the Smithsonians, one other possible pilgrimage for public school kids was a trip to the MacArthur Museum.

    First run Star Trek was preempted to show the Tidewater media drain field a documentary of General Doug.

    We had already seen this tribute at school!

    Run away from our loose canon!

    America talks freedom of the individual out one side while servicing leader cults, the Fuhrer Principle, out the other! :lol:

    What ever gratifies us the 'first-est with the most-est'!

    The spurious wants/needs of our Patriot Sunshine can consecrate/illuminate a founding father or burn the same as a mob rule fashion fascist.

    In an era of mass communication that seems to speak only in single syllables, no time/money for context.

    Short answers only!

    When it comes to cabbages and kings,

    hold onto your tails,

    we swing both ways! ;)




    4too
     
  10. Arcanix

    Arcanix First time out of the vault

    53
    Mar 2, 2013
    Why fight eachother, Kim is the badguy in this thread?

    These maniac dictators has to go...first that Assad guy in Syria then this Kim guy. I mean...Kim actually thinks nuking a small island and threatening the US and the world with "cut their throats" will establish him as a world power.

    US diplomatic powerhouse in North Korea seems to be Dennis Rodman.
     
  11. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Sweden is #9 when it comes to global military exports. The industry grew over 300% in the past decade.

    The truth can be even worse.

    Of course, North Korea is far from being an enhanced threat. This is a reply aimed at the lulzdrones posts.
     
  12. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    Well, Tagz, to be fair, a scenario like that is unlikely unless the US ever goes to war versus a militarily unified EU, the China-in-50-years (if it doesn't collapse before then), or does an invasion of Russia. It would be pointless to plan and equip for an eventuality like that when the US defense budget is currently already giganticly large, and a lot of equipment becomes outdated after five years or so anyway.
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Again. There is NO chance in hell that the NK has even a DECENT chance at winning IN THE FIELD against the US forces today which would probably attack with the the full force of the NATO which would one way or another probably involve european nations. In the case NK is so stupid to attack first.

    The US military is still capable of delivering very deady strikes and to destroy even strong enemy forces. Russia? China? No clue! But we are NOT talking about Russia anyway and I have no reason why you mention one of the biggest nations here which is one of the few out there that can actually compete with the US compared to an nation that is barelly better then Cuba as far the military and civilians go.

    Again, they dont even have the resources to keep their infrastructure going. I am sure they have bunkers full of artillery, kalashnikovs and full with other weapons from the 50s and 60s.

    But this isnt the 50s anymore. Their people are starving. A lot. The power of the NK was already back then questionable and without the help of 1 million chinese men we would not even have NK today.

    We are talking here about an traditional warefare which would last 1 day and it would be either surrender or fighting a fight like we see them now in Afghanistan and the Iraq.

    Seriously. guys. Its NK. Not the Sovietunion we are talking about here.
     
  14. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    Literally too many people are trying to escape the country despite the fact that the chances of them getting killed or deported back are much higher than actually escaping. Insane? Or simply tired of the oppression?

    All North Koreans are poor, and the non-elite (even those in Pyongyang) are starving on the streets. It's pretty damn hard to worship a leader whilst not even getting enough bread to live through the day. There's no industry because people take apart factories to get a small amount of food.

    I'd say that the only reason why North Korea is still alive is because their people are too tired and oppressed to fight back. The only threat - the soldiers - can be wiped out with missiles. And if they choose to sit in their bunkers, then so be it. You cannot invade South Korea without climbing out of shelter first.
     
  15. Matthews

    Matthews It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Aug 29, 2012
    Exports, meaning that others buy our planes. Not meaning that we got the necessary resources to have a shitload of planes at our disposal.
     
  16. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    @Crni Vuk

    There. There you go again. And then you tell me you didn't say that the us armed forces are invincible. Ok, now you are telling me that maybe Russia or China "may stand a chance" but that they are pretty much invincible for the rest of the world.

    Besides you are making a lot of assumptions to support you theory "They would have the full force of NATO... we are talking only about traditional warfare" And by the way, when you say "traditional" you mean conventional and non asymmetrical, because that's making a LOT of assumptions on how NK strategy would work. Why would they refuse to use guerilla tactics if they are so technologically inferior? Plus with the military resources they have, if used wisely, they can cause far more damage than a few talibans with IED's. Plus there is no reason to think they won't use unconventional tactics when they invest in unconventional weapons like human torpedoes.

    In Vietnam war the US faced both conventional AND unconventional forces. They were there for over 10 years, having minimal losses compared to the opposition, and the technological superiority they enjoyed was ridiculous. Yet they lost the war.

    Could NK win a war and reunify Korea? I don't know, probably not, but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, I don't assume things as if they had already happened.
     
  17. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Absolutely not.
     
  18. AmericanSephiroth

    AmericanSephiroth First time out of the vault

    16
    Dec 31, 2012
    I'm not going to pretend I know everything about NK's capabilities but if they are so starving and weak couldn't if the US got truly tired of their antics couldn't they just blockade NK and watch them die? or if they really piss the US off couldn't the US just glass the place with enough missiles to "parking lot" the place? I don't pretend to know everything about NK but it seems like they lack any real capabilities to deal with any kind of larger military. and even if they could fend off the US/SK alliance what about US/SK's allies because i doubt many like NK and some countries could join just to get rid of them.
     
  19. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    To give an answer of why brute force does not always wins, many people seem to forget that war is a bit more complex than a simple math of having the best/biggest guns or just having more resources.

    Here is a video that shows two different cases of weak vs strong, they are not a perfect blueprint aplyable to every single case, but it serves to illustrate the point.

    Embed was deactivated by user so you'll have to watch it in youtube.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtiRpHjUwY
     
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    go on believe in your "North Korean" force. I am not going to convince you from anything.

    Military and history is my hobby. And I just see the situation realistic.

    The NK has as far as military power goes no chance against the US.

    occupation is a completely different matter here and I am not even talking about that.