Obsidian Strikes Back with The Outer Worlds

[TorontoReign]

The Bethesda fanbase is in revolt. All the normal Youtube shills, even the ones that once said Bethesda could do no wrong, are actually revolting. For years people begged Bethesda to allow Obsidian to make another Fallout, but they chose to toss it to their B team, creating the abomination known as Fallout 76. Behind the scenes Obsidian slowly bid their time, nearly going bankrupt in the process, until Microsoft swallowed them up, allowing them to continue existing long enough to launch The Outer Worlds.

Obsidian, plagued by low sales with Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny, must have thought to themselves – gee nobody is buying these games because they are isometric. Now bleeding money partly due nepotism, partly due to a history of buggy masterpieces that sold poorly, they say screw it we will make our own FPS RPG, but first we need that sweet Microsoft money. It has released to critical acclaim, with a much smaller scale than the average Bethesda game, but also a lot less bugs. Yes, there is the Epic store nonsense, it is basically a New Vegas clone, it still isn't like old Fallout, but at least it has skill checks! This is where we are in 2019. We are simply happy for skill checks with no game breaking bugs.

Bethesda apologists will tout their publishing of good games like Wolfenstein and Doom, but that does not excuse their continued failure at producing a game that does not fall apart with heavy use. I have said this before but Bethesda games have been buggy from the start. That is no longer considered a feature. The gaming companies are now realizing gamers can only eat so much shit before they simply stop, due to being totally full of shit.

People like Jim Sterling say Bethesda can fuck off, while also loving the ever loving shit out of Fallout 4, so we should not hope too much that things will change for the better. This might be a short term gain. History has proven that fans such as this are fickle, choosing to jump ship after they ruin the franchises they love. They will hop back and forth, suggesting bad ideas that get picked up, while good ones get shot down. Apparently Bethesda listened to one single fan that asked for gameplay enhancing features they can pay for. Then they went further and added a subscription to a game that has no content worth playing for an entire year. Thus Fallout 1st was born.

Tim Cain recently went on record saying they didn't make The Outer Worlds to show up Bethesda, but we should face the facts, since the video game business implies beating the other guy to the bank ; they want people to buy their games instead of the other guy. Tim always has been fairly diplomatic in regards to Bethesda's handling of the Fallout series.




But despite Tim's comments above it is pretty interesting that Obsidian released their space RPG before Bethesda has even shown footage of Starfield. Here are some Fallout 76 comments that I'm sure Bethesda will remove to close this out. Although I'm not a huge fan of The Outer Worlds design, I am more than happy to admit I enjoy seeing Bethesda squirm.

Spoiler

https://bethesda.net/community/topi...h-fallout-1st?language[]=en&lang=en-US&page=1

 

[Hoplite]

Ah yes. Space RPG happens to be released before Starfield (which will probably be fantastic given how long Beth is taking to make it instead of rushing it out like Skyrim was) so it's clear they're "showing Bethesda up"

Even though Outer Worlds and Fallout appeal to two entirely different crowds. Fallout's a more casual game now in an entirely different setting, and Outer Worlds is a more in depth game set on multiple planets. They're wildly different and I think that we need to stop imagining Obsidian and Bethesda as dueling companies when they target different demographics

 

[Risewild]

Ah yes. Space RPG happens to be released before Starfield (which will probably be fantastic given how long Beth is taking to make it instead of rushing it out like Skyrim was) so it's clear they're "showing Bethesda up"

Even though Outer Worlds and Fallout appeal to two entirely different crowds. Fallout's a more casual game now in an entirely different setting, and Outer Worlds is a more in depth game set on multiple planets. They're wildly different and I think that we need to stop imagining Obsidian and Bethesda as dueling companies when they target different demographics

And yet... I have seen lots of Bethesda Fallout fans saying how great The Outer Worlds is. Including Youtubers that really loved Fallout 4, now say that Bethesda is outdated, that Bethesda should learn from Obsidian, or that The Outer Worlds shows how it's possible to have a game that is not broken at release and Bethesda should stop their excuses.

Seems like even if Obsidian wasn't targeting Bethesda's Fallout players, that those players bought The Outer Worlds and love it.

I made the mistake of going on Youtube, and my recommendations were all stuff like "Bethesda is outdated" or "The Outer Worlds is great" or "Bethesda is now evil" or "CD Projekt Red Boss shames EA, Bethesda and Activision" and so on... I rarely go on Youtube and I follow no account there. This tells me that public opinion about Bethesda changed a lot, since some of those youtubers always praised Bethesda in the past.

 

[Norzan]

(which will probably be fantastic given how long Beth is taking to make it instead of rushing it out like Skyrim was)

If only we had the fabulously optimistic button that the RPGCodex has here. Fallout 3 took four years to make and it was a colossal disaster at launch. More time for Bethesda doesn't mean that the launch will be good.

When we have long time Bethesda shills like Jim Sterling, a man that says Fallout 4 is great, telling Bethesda is officially obsolete, then your company is in serious danger. He even claimed he no longer can play any of the previous Bethesda games after playing the Outer Worlds.

Leaning on the old formula of basic, casual gameplay with simplistic RPG elements that Bethesda has used since Oblivion might actually backfire here if they actually use it for Starfield and ES 6.

 

[Hoplite]

If only we had the fabulously optimistic button that the RPGCodex has here. Fallout 3 took four years to make and it was a colossal disaster at launch. More time for Bethesda doesn't mean that the launch will be good.

When we have long time Bethesda shills like Jim Sterling, a man that says Fallout 4 is great, telling Bethesda is officially obsolete, then your company is in serious danger. He even claimed he no longer can play any of the previous Bethesda games after playing the Outer Worlds.

Leaning on the old formula of basic, casual gameplay with simplistic RPG elements that Bethesda has used since Oblivion might actually backfire here if they actually use it for Starfield and ES 6.

I personally feel like the time being taken to make Starfield will make for a better launch than Fallout 3. So long as it's less simple than Fallout 4 and Skyrim, they can't fuck up worse than they already have

 

[Eumesmopo]

...they can't fuck up worse than they already have

"Is that a challenge?" - Todd

 

[SquidWard]

I personally feel like the time being taken to make Starfield will make for a better launch than Fallout 3. So long as it's less simple than Fallout 4 and Skyrim, they can't fuck up worse than they already have

Yeah, this is way too fabulously optimistic. Unless they aim for a different game design and world design, philosophy, etc. Them taking more time to make more radiant quests wouldn't be good, right? Every game has only gotten more and more streamlined.

Not to mention, the game likely will be built upon the other assets and loops and codes from their other games. They have a lot of the stuff prepared, so that means a lot of the same issues they don't fix will pop back up in the game. But modders will fix it! Right?! Right?!

 

[TorontoReign]

Ah yes. Space RPG happens to be released before Starfield (which will probably be fantastic given how long Beth is taking to make it instead of rushing it out like Skyrim was) so it's clear they're "showing Bethesda up"

Even though Outer Worlds and Fallout appeal to two entirely different crowds. Fallout's a more casual game now in an entirely different setting, and Outer Worlds is a more in depth game set on multiple planets. They're wildly different and I think that we need to stop imagining Obsidian and Bethesda as dueling companies when they target different demographics

Yes, they made a RPG that butt fucked Bethesda in front of the whole planet, whether it was intentional or not.

No, they aren't that different aside from budget and scope.

 

[KingArthur]

“Obsidian Strikes Back” sounds like a better Star Wars spin off than Solo.

 

[Korin]

A small sub-section of the Bethesda fanbase is in revolt.

Fixed :p

The gaming companies are now realizing gamers can only eat so much shit before they simply stop, due to being totally full of shit.

They will definitely continue to eat it. Fans are fickle but they're also forgetful and just want to play games. Taco Bell gives people diarrhea but eventually they forget and are in the mood for tacos again.

Apparently Bethesda listened to one single fan that asked for gameplay enhancing features they can pay for. Then they went further and added a subscription to a game that has no content worth playing for an entire year. Thus Fallout 1st was born.

These were heavily and frequently requested features for a long time (even pre-dating the release), not one person's idea. The understandable shock was they wanted money for it.

Tim Cain recently went on record saying they didn't make The Outer Worlds to show up Bethesda, but we should face the facts, since the video game business implies beating the other guy to the bank ; they want people to buy their games instead of the other guy. Tim always has been fairly diplomatic in regards to Bethesda's handling of the Fallout series.

To say they created the entirety of the game specifically to show up Bethesda is a bit of a stretch. It sounds like Obsidian can't beat anyone to the bank let alone Bethesda. I do think the trailer was meant to be a dig when it mentioned being "the original creators of Fallout" or maybe they just wanted the brand association. We can only speculate. Chris Avellone has been riding Bethesda hard though:

...it is pretty interesting that Obsidian released their space RPG before Bethesda has even shown footage of Starfield.

Starfield doesn't have a release date yet other than 2020 "maybe". I don't think this is that interesting. I don't think they're going to steal Bethesda's lunch with the releases being that far apart.

 

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

It doesn't matter what Obsidian says on the matter. The people out there made the narrative, they reinforce the narrative, therefore the narrative is true.

And I, by no means, am against that. Although in this case I must say that my stance is more ''The enemy of my enemy is also an enemy, but I will let them sort it out first.''

I am just not that sure that The Outer World is THAT good of a game after all is said and done. And everything I care for is playing a damn good game.

 

[Korin]

And yet... I have seen lots of Bethesda Fallout fans saying how great The Outer Worlds is

It is a great game but liking the games isn't mutually exclusive unless you have a borderline personality :p

I made the mistake of going on Youtube, and my recommendations were all stuff like "Bethesda is outdated" or "The Outer Worlds is great" or "Bethesda is now evil" or "CD Projekt Red Boss shames EA, Bethesda and Activision" and so on... I rarely go on Youtube and I follow no account there. This tells me that public opinion about Bethesda changed a lot, since some of those youtubers always praised Bethesda in the past.

This is half a problem with youtube and how it silos users into echo chambers or prioritizes certain channels over others. It's also a problem with content creators who feed mainly on reporting bad news. There's more money in criticism and bad news than good news. Fallout 76 is the Donald Trump of video games every other week. Youtube also has the illusion of representing a majority of opinions but only to the people watching. Donald Trump seems undeniable terrible and incompetent... no one likes him... according to Youtube. And yet half the US population voted for him. They will likely do it again. It will be the same with Bethesda. No matter how many views a "Bethesda is dead/outdated" video gets, they will still make games and be successful. God there are posts on this very forum over 10 years old saying the exact same things.

 

[TorontoReign]

Dude, Youtube IS the gaming media.

So people have trouble interpreting my jabs which are often hyperbolic. It's supposed to be entertaining. Yes, there was more than one single person to request microtransactions. They were all kids or adults that spend their money on dumb shit. For you to defend blatant money grabbing microtransactions like this leads me to believe you have tons of extra money to blow. You will likely keep the game afloat.

Man all I am saying is Obsidian released their space RPG first, setting a new precedent in focused design, with a fresh setting that hasn't been done a thousand times. Since you are a bit of a fanboy it is no surprise you have your blinders on. You are actually playing the game, so you see fans still enjoying the stuff.

Surely you understand it doesn't matter what anyone intended, only what has been perceived? If fans perceive there to be a backlash, there is one. The loudest on the internet wins.

Reading comprehension fanboys. I said it is Obsidians job to make more money so they are being competitive. They might not be twirling their fucking mustaches but they are happy with the PR. If you don't think so, you might be part of the problem due to fanboyism

Bethesda's fanbase IS in revolt. Look on Youtube. Those were the people invited to play 76. Now many of them are simply tired of defending Bethesda over poor decisions. Obsidian now stands a strong change of competing with Bethesda for the foreseeable future. Not sales wise perhaps. People will still buy Bethesda's next game even after all this, you are right. But if that game is utter shit like the last two, then count on that to not last forever.

It's nice to hope for Bethesda to return to form but none of the people that made them worth a shit, are even around these days. They just hold two IP's that had their lore destroyed in atomic fire.

 

[Lexx]

The Bethesda fanbase is in revolt.

They revolt like this:

Spoiler

 

[TorontoReign]

They revolt like this:

Spoiler

Those guys are like Serifan. They go out and buy the collector edition because they wipe with 100 dollar bills. They talk shit, but they have low standards.

People that play Overwatch are retards already.

 

[Korin]

Dude, Youtube IS the gaming media.

That is the reality but also unfortunate because we are more or less funneled by algorithms into what we should be watching and believing.

For you to defend blatantly money grabbing microtransactions like this leads me to believe you have tons of extra money to blow. You will likely keep the game afloat.

I don't think I've flatly defended them other than provide context and counterpoints where it was applicable or something was blatantly untrue. Also I'm not paying for anything lol. The game is still free. There isn't anything in the game you need to pay for to play, something I've reiterated numerous times. If anything I am costing them money.

Man all I am saying is Obsidian released their space RPG first, setting a new precedent in focused design, with a fresh setting that hasn't been done a thousand times. Since you are a bit of a fanboy it is no surprise you have your blinders on. You are actually playing the game, so you see fans still enjoying the stuff.

I am guessing that come 2020/2021 when Starfield comes out people aren't going to say, "Aw shucks, I already filled my space game quota for the next 2 years" :p

Bethesda's fanbase IS in revolt. Look on Youtube. Those were the people invited to play 76. Now many of them are simply tired of defending Bethesda over poor decisions. Obsidian now stands a strong change of competing with Bethesda for the foreseeable future. Not sales wise perhaps. People will still buy Bethesda's next game even after all this, you are right. But if that game is utter shit like the last two, then count on that to not last forever.

I wouldn't point to Youtube as being representative of anything because of how it works. Most of these channels have millions of subscribers across multiple games and genres. People like AngryShowJoe, LegacyKillaHD and others literally make money being angry at one thing to the next. Very little of their content is about anything else. The outrage is real but it's also manufactured and monetized. If you believe everything people say on Youtube then half the AAA series released in the last 5 years are dying.

It's nice to hope for Bethesda to return to form but none of the people that made them worth a shit, are even around these days. They just hold two IP's that had their lore destroyed in atomic fire.

I don't even disagree with you my dude.

 

[TorontoReign]

Man half of the AAA releases have (nearly) died according to their expectations! Is it games you don't normally play? All the military FPS releases are having issues. The annual sports games are having issues. MGSV, FF15, Tomb Raider, Street Fighter, Rage 2, Wolfenstein, Far Cry, Assassins Creed, Ghost Recon, Red Dead 2 even...all released in a much worse state than previous games in the series. If they didn't they are milking online shit like GTA V.

There are more but it should be said even if sales are good in some of these series, they are usually a shell of what they should be. People force themselves to play to gain some nostalgia. The AAA scene is having serious issues that are pretty obvious if you don't just take people's word for things. They downplay it but the global economy being in a never ending series of recessions has created a need for extra cash flow, exacerbated by how much these games cost to make now. Making one or two games every few years that you put all your time and money in, only for them to fail, is bad business.

I feel like you are seeing (once again) hyperbolic reactions on Youtube as some kind of minority when most people watch those videos and agree with them. Literally everyone watches that shit. With their smartphones out, mouth agape, absorbing and believing every last bit of content they can find.

You see a few guys and think well that is only a few guys, but it's the vast majority of the gaming community on Youtube, IGN, Kotaku, Eurogamer, even NEOGAF! Sure, they still have fans. Mostly at Polygon. My point is your perspective is the one skewed due to you liking the developer and their games. You are invested. You do defend them man, which is fine. But how about that Bethesda forum? Shouldn't their fans be there? They seem pissed.

These supporters they still have? I am willing to bet they were not around when Morrowind came out. If they were they would be sick and tired of their halfass bullshit. They have more money than God but they can't create a new engine in twenty fucking years.

Korin, I think you are downplaying this because you want them to make another good game, while people like me have no stake in the outcome. This is unresolvable. All you fans can do is hope and vote with your wallet. I expect so many people on here to buy Bethesda's next two games that I will murder all of your souls in the astral plane with dank magick.

 

[Jabberwok]

Yeah, this is way too fabulously optimistic. Unless they aim for a different game design and world design, philosophy, etc. Them taking more time to make more radiant quests wouldn't be good, right? Every game has only gotten more and more streamlined.

More or less this. They haven't accidentally been making shite for years. They've been making what they set out to make, and it's something I don't want to play. Doesn't matter how much time they put into it.....

 

[Cobra Commander]

NV is my favorite game. I´m happy for Obsidian, I hope the sequence is even more successful.

 

[CarryTrainer.Editor]

I've got about 6 hours in and The Outer Worlds is fun. There are many similarities with New Vegas, but the Outer Worlds has it's own personality.