One Trillion People?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by TyloniusFunk, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. TyloniusFunk

    TyloniusFunk It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Nov 19, 2008
    At what population does the human race stop valuing individual life, embrace eugenics and euthanasia, evolve into some hive minded, insectoid species. A trillion? 10 Billion? Do we destroy the world first?
  2. McRae

    McRae For sale: clown shoes, never worn Orderite

    Dec 9, 2007
    We're about to settle down on the moon. Soon, it will be Mars...

    Our planet starts to look like Trantor :) .
  3. The answer lies within....

  4. Radwaster

    Radwaster It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 1, 2009

    Not a 1 digit post.
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    It seems unlikely that humans though will live on the moon in form of big populations and whole cities. I am not saying its impossible. Just unlikely.
  6. Panker_u_sakou_starom

    Panker_u_sakou_starom It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 16, 2009
    Unlikely now. In a 100 years? Much more likely. Especially for the fact that the Moon itself is a real "treasure planet" full of useful resources and minerals. As long as you can make some money out of something, no matter where that place is, no doubt that humans will swarm there eventually like flies around shit (time is not an issue here, but just a minor liability). Technology comes along as a side-effect of making profits.
  7. welsh

    welsh Junkmaster

    Apr 5, 2003
    That depends. Generally speaking, once people reach a certain level of prosperity, the rate of population growth tends to slow down or level out.

    But by then, we'll be out of resources and cannibalism will prevent over-population. So don't sweat it.
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Thing is just that even professional scientists somewhat doubt that "cities" will be ever a real possibility except maybe in a very far future (and we are talking here about much more then 100 years and "large" cities not small bases) since the moon is just not very suitable for any kind of "terraforming" which is a important factor when it comes to colonization. Mining or anygthing similar is a completely different story of course since you would need a lot less resources to maintain here a rather small base for example that could be used by a small number of humans and many machines doing most of the work. To maintain a whole city on a place like the moon is almost impossible, as said "almost". Its not completely unthinkable but one has to ask himself if we really will possess the needed technology in 100 years to allow large cities on the moon. The only planet that might have a chance for terraforming is the Mars. And even here its very questionable if its possible even if you would have the needed technology. One should not forget that "space" is almost the most agressive enviroment to any kind of living beeing that we know at the moment (or at least from earth). And just alone the needed technology, energy and economy to keep a "small" space station working is pretty much the limit today.

    Maybe in 100 years we have what it needs for a "whole city" on the moon or mars even. But I would not bet my money on it. That for sure. Better thinking about "realistic" solutions for earth here and now before dreaming about "new" worlds outside of the blue planet. And by the way even if there would be cities on the moon even in 100 years they probably will not survive without the earth. For the case we fucke it up after we have cities on the moon.
  9. NFSreloaded

    NFSreloaded Still Mildly Glowing

    May 5, 2009
    I don't think we'll ever be able colonize the Moon or any other planet, unless we develop a new powerful fuel (fossile fuels are already running out) and technology to sustain life in such inhospitable surroundings. And all this must be done before nature catches up with us for all the damage we've already done to the Earth.
  10. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    I agree. We're screwed. I don't even think a planet of our size could support a space travelling society. We'll run out of resources before we figure out how to do space travel the way it ought to be done, I'm sure.
  11. JunWisewar

    JunWisewar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Feb 9, 2009
    Let's just hope some Alien with light years ahead technologies come to earth and being a sucker by sharing their tech with us.
  12. gregor_y

    gregor_y Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jan 19, 2007
    Right...and we use this technology for what? ofcourse weapons...

    So my bet is we destroy the world :)
  13. JunWisewar

    JunWisewar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Feb 9, 2009
    By then human will spread out too much across the universe till that we can't be exterminated easily :D
  14. gregor_y

    gregor_y Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jan 19, 2007
    Right...droping nukes(or something stronger) from orbit on our heads would be hard for aliens with same or better tech...
  15. UncannyGarlic

    UncannyGarlic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 6, 2008
    The fuel isn't really a problem seeing as we don't use fossil fuels for space flight, granted we need energy in order to produce those fuels but the energy doesn't have to come from fossil fuels. As for settlements in space, the big deal is the cost of shipping supplies to that base until it becomes self sustainable, something which will take many, many years to do.
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I had something different in mind for a while now.

    Any advanced space traveling species might like to have cheap labor force, sure there are robots but those things are still quite expensive when it comes to production, and even with nano fabricator engines superior minds will probably still find it a waste to manufacture a machine for tasks some limited minded bipedal mammal can do in return for some food, water and the occasional shots against disease.

    I plan to sell the excess of the human population as cheap labor forces to such alien intelligences in return for FTL technology, nano fabrication technology and what other goodies we like.

    And the results are positive.

    A large population that might have starved or died in wars gets to see the universe while performing regular exercises that keep them fit and occupied.

    The population here on Earth gets technology that might help us put the planet back together again, colonize the moon and other worlds within the solar system, and suffers less from the stress posed by a larger number of people. (feeding them, conflicting religious or political views, anarchism)

    I get to become rich and powerful, never have to worry about my future again and living in the knowledge I made the world for the remaining population a better place than that it was before I made that deal.

    We all win.
  17. Radwaster

    Radwaster It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 1, 2009
    Remarkably similar to the plot of Torchwood season 3, Dutch Ghost.

    But a bit less ghey.
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Thank you, I stride to be original.

    Also, I had that thought long before Torchwood came up with it.
  19. JayGrey

    JayGrey It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 8, 2009
    Ghost, I officially persent you with my resume to be an underling in the glorious Dutch Human Allocation Force. Please, contact me when the invasion fleet arrives, so that I may begin my allocations of the bipedal scum.

    In regards to colonizing the moon, what's the point? It costs more to land on that rock then fly right by it; it gets pumled by astoriods, having no atmosphere; any structures for humanity would have to be completely air-proof and shielded from cosmic rays, not to meantion controlling heat . . . Even mining, what reasources does the moon have in abundance (and reachable) that would make it somehow worth while?

    There was a nice little documentry on Discover showcasing NASA's inclination to go to Mars: To plant a 6 man team, with shelter, an fuel manufacturing depot, and enough supplies to become self sufficent (apparently), between 24 billion and 400 billion.

    Still, what's the point? To ship stuff back to Earth still takes between three to six months, requires enough propellent to get it off the ground, and enough to stop it (as manufacturing would likely have to take place in orbit) and enough to land it . . .

    *Shrugs* It can be done, but why do it (outside of reaserch)?

    Now to the original topic: When do humans become insignificant to other humans? When the other human has something I want!
    " . . . embrace eugenics"
    Hitler, Rwanda, Somalia (right? Not quite sure), the Sudan . . . Well, the last 3 were not exactly based on lower genetics, but meh . . . I'm a moron, thus I'll play this arguement like one. No one can defeat mine stupidity! (See, perfect minion, Dutch.)
    " . . . euthanasia"
    Rouge doctors/Hitler/early humans when deformed children were left to die, after birth (whether it really happened or not, I don't know, honestly).
    " . . . evolve into some hive minded . . . species"
    NAFTA*, UN, UK.

    *Er, similar acronym meaning North America . . . Terrorism, thingie. Damn you, faulty brain.
  20. Maphusio

    Maphusio Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Sep 25, 2004
    We will begin colonization of the moon on the year 2020. To start the USA will have its own colony. Japans trip to the moon in 2020 will most likely secure a piece of land for them to colonize as well. Many other countries will follow suit (China, India (yes, India).

    It's possible a more international base will be constructed and I do believe that is the most intelligent way to approach a potentially unstable situation.

    As mentioned above this post, our current method of reaching LEO (Low Earth Orbit) is not in jeopardy due to the energy crisis. We have all ready developed engines capable of getting us to the moon and back in a couple hours and to Mars in roughly one months time so once in LEO, we will not have any trouble getting around. On top of that were we to use conventional rockets to leave the planets we visit we could use native fuels for return propellant.

    Sustaining large moon colonies will not be easy. Unlike Mars you can not effectively live off the land. Sustaining a colony will require green houses which would consume massive amount of energy during the 28.5 day night cycle. This can be solved by creating massive solar farms. We could create enough energy on the moon to start to power our energy needs on earth via microwaving that stored energy back to Earth.

    Radiation is still an issue but that is manageable with current technology or even technology from thousands of years ago (build brick buildings underground).

    So as you can see, its not that far fetched and moon colonies are all ready planned by many countries as early as 2020.

    Alec alec alec, you and I have been down this road so I won't try to cramp your pessimistic ways. :P All that aside, I think the easiest way to look at it is this, have we the human race, when our backs were against the wall thrown in the towel? I think our determination to survive, explore and our desire to achieve the impossible will win out over complacency and procrastination.