Plot-holes and logical inconsistencies of FO3?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Anarchosyn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    We argue about this because Fo3 lore ruins lots of things of west coast.

    I'd want to say to Fo3's fanboy "I dont understand the argument that because people on the east coast have their shit itself in the fallout universe that means the west coast should be doing same things depicted in FO3

    Its like saying USA or japan should be eat worse because Somalia have done it."
     
  2. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    Just because one region on the OTHER SIDE of the country is different doesn't ruin the lore. Hell where I live things are different just driving 50mi east in to Nevada and we haven't even had a nuclear apocalypse. Radiation levels, reliable food/water sources, and so on can all hinder the development of human civilization all together or alter the way in which it forms.

    I'd want to say to Fo3's fanboy "I dont understand the argument that because people on the east coast have their shit itself in the fallout universe that means the west coast should be doing same things depicted in FO3

    Its like saying USA or japan should be eat worse because Somalia have done it."

    Nobody said the west had to be in the shit because the east is nor emulate FO:3 in any way. Referring back to my initial paragraph it would be utterly ridiculous to say that the entirety of civilization should develop at the exact same pace lacking a national infrastructure and reliable coast to coast communication.
     
  3. Oppen

    Oppen FIXT n°1 fan

    Dec 26, 2011
    You can live no more than a few days without water. Water in the east coast is radiactive, with almost no exception. Radiactivity from the water should kill almost any human in less than three years (according to game mechanics, since drinking radiactive water will probably give you at least 1 rad, and you need to drink a little bit everyday, and 1000 rads means either certain death or ghoulification), but you see several settlements and lots of people. Yes, it's true, the west coast having their shit together doesn't imply the east coast having it, but there are some things where you have a hard deadline to put it together. Obtaining water is one of them. Of course, there will always be outliers, there will be SOME people living, but not several settlements. You could argue there will always be radaway. But it's not true, if you didn't even manage to get clean water, I wouldn't expect you get to manufacture radaway (a hint, since it looks liquid, there is a high chance you need water to produce it anyway), and prewar supplies are limited, since prewar factories are not working. And, after 200 years, it's pretty likely it will be scarce. You could say the cave fungus might solve it, then, but it's considered something novel, and probably only the kids in that cave know about them. So, that means a single settlement, maybe the nearest towns, will have access to a natural radiation cure in the area.
    For reference, in Fallout 1 you have 150 days without a reliable source of clean water until your vault is considered doomed. And that's how it fucks up the lore for the west coast, how is it that there you have 150 days when the east coast survived 200 damned years?
     
  4. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    Could argue that FO:3 is so full of plot holes that we don't know what types of purifiers etc.. came out with vault survivors. It's not particularly hard to filter radiation from water, even that dump Megaton has it's own small purifier.
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Civilization on the East Coast is somewhat 'older' than that on the West coast, plus there would be more resources for survivors to start over again.

    Also, they had two hundred years to start rebuilding trade routes, settlements and Post Nuclear forms of economy such as farms.

    Instead it seems that most of the survivors have just been farting around for years, waiting for a 'chosen one' to come by.


    As someone who actually is educated in nuclear science already told us, blowing up a nuclear warhead is not the same as detonating it (triggering it to reach critical mass).

    In order to have a more realistic idea of how powerful they are, just look at the Divide from that mountain side to see their impact.
     
  6. Beavis

    Beavis First time out of the vault

    36
    Sep 7, 2012
    True, they have had 200 years but that doesnt mean much. The dark ages in Europe lasted for centuries.

    The main reason the east coast population isnt trading and farming is because there is no security. Theres no one to stop raiders from taking farms and slaughtering traders. Out west the NCR and the legion have military forces patrolling the roads providing some measure of law enforcement while the east coast is complete anarchy outside of small settlements like megaton and tenpenny tower who provide security to their residents


    FO3 has plenty of plotholes and failures i just dont feel like this is one of them
     
  7. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The dark ages in eurpe didn't have Buttler robots and Vaults full of tech. Surprising that those vaults were abandoned and in 200 years n one ever bothere to go loot them for technology even when their doors are wide open.

    Also the NCR and the Legion aren't cops that just existed because, they were bron from communities not sitting on their asses doing nothing for 200 years. Specially considering there are a lot of weapons in DC, and Robots, etc. There is huge plothole on how people have survivied in DC for so long without making farms or progressing in any way. And how settlements seem to sustain themselves with canned food from before the war.
     
  8. Beavis

    Beavis First time out of the vault

    36
    Sep 7, 2012
    True, they didnt have robots and vaults laying around but there were plenty of books containing the knowledge of the greeks and romans laying around. That knowledge was lost after a few generations. When basic survival becomes the priority knowledge is put on the backburner. Roman scholars knew the world was round 1500 years before Columbus set out. The uneducated descendants of the people who crawled out of the vaults would not be able to do anything with the tech once it was in their hands anyway.

    The east coast is well behind the west, they have not formed any sort of central government as of 2277 but instead are spread out in small settlements. No one settlement has the military capacity to branch out and control the territory around them, they can barely fend off the raiders as is.

    I think the east coasters mainly survive off meats from animals like mole rats, mirelurks and of course squirrel on a stick, even though its not clearly stated in the game there are meats everywhere available for trade.
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Except aparently they need a book to tell them how to hunt rats. Because that's a quest.

    Also their computers seem to still work just fine, there are abandoned Libraries and intact books, there are buildings still standing that re just boarded up, houses still standing yet they decide to go live around a bomb with no farms, or in a Boat. Tenpenny tower has no sustainable food source they are said to be rich, but Rich from exactly what? did they find a Truck full of Nuka Cola? do they control trade routes? nope, they just kind of live there, so they are rich.

    Also why is the Merchant town just one street and a couple of houses with no farms or anything to produce stuff to trade?

    Kids aparetly surviving for generations by eating cave-wall mushrooms.

    A Town in a Bridge with no aparent food source.

    What do all those Raiders eat? If they are cannibals then where do those people come from to mantain such numbers? Are they using the Gary Vault as a farm?

    There are Vaults with their doors blasted open and all the loot inside perfectly intact. And Vaults are common Knowledge because they refer to you as a Vault kid. So there is really no excuse for them not doign anything, and no explanation on how they managed to survive for more than one generation, let alone 200 years.

    The setting of FO3 wasn't well tought out at all, they just sprinkled the map with towns with no regard for world building.

    FO3's setting would've worked better if it was set only a couple of years after the war instead of 200, or if it's set 200 years the people moving in should all be colonists from other communities trying to settle in the hostile envirorment.
     
  10. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    One of the points of contention with the family is that they killed all of their brahmin which is Arefu's main source of food and income.
     
  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    What did those Brahmin eat? Concrete? or did they let them to eat grass next to the Mutant Crab infested lake 20 meters below their town?
     
  12. Oppen

    Oppen FIXT n°1 fan

    Dec 26, 2011
    Do you realize the dark ages had organization? Feudalism, lords, etc. And they lasted mostly because it was convenient for them. There is nobody taking any advantage of how the things are in the capital wasteland. An obvious argument would be "yeah, the raiders are better thanks to that" but that's just not true. Who are going to raid if they have nothing to survive? You need food, even if you are a raider.
    About the books, nope, they weren't available to anyone who wanted to read, because there was an organized society that told townspeople not to read. Monks and lords read books, farmers do not. Simply like that. The vaults, in the other hand, were scavengeable, if you had the guts. And being the fact a young man by himself (or young woman) can, you don't need THAT much people.

    And they're still happy to give them blood for protection?
    "Well, OK, we're all gonna die from starvation because of you, but take a little bit blood. Oh, who's a cute vampire? YES, YOU ARE!"
     
  13. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    GOOD QUESTION!


    I'll admit, that was a pretty lame way of resolving things. Actually Blood Ties in itself is kind of a useless quest.
     
  14. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Radiation! :lol:
     
  15. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    PIP-Boy has been bothering me lately. IIRC in every other Fallout the device can just be put on like a wristwatch but this one is supposed to be biometrically locked to the user, yet clothing is obviously passing UNDER the device. Seems like if they locked it to you like that it would be pretty un-hygenic. Can you imagine the smell from all the sweat that would collect under there? Not to mention there would probably be a good chance for sores and other types of skin diseases from lack of proper washing.
     
  16. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    Well, actually user can remove it (FNV), in F3 that dialogue from Vault 101 was weird.
     
  17. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    That's exactly what I mean. Every other FO you can take it off and give it to other people (I/E Doc giving his to the Courier). The most I could logically see being a non removable part of a PIP-Boy is possibly an implant it can link up with or plug in to in order to allow it to read blood chemistry/radiation/etc...
     
  18. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I didn't talk about this place but other communities.
    Lots of Fo3 fan boys say "Oww theres so little ruins so NV isn't fallout" or "There's nation it isn't fallout!" and other stupid things.
     
  19. The Sixth Ranger

    The Sixth Ranger It Wandered In From the Wastes

    118
    Mar 10, 2013
    Do correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the PIP-Boy be easily removed in Fallout 1 and 2? Why go through all the trouble of basically burning it onto somebody's arm?

    And you can see in the scene in Doc Mitchell's house, that not only is a PIP-Boy added, but also a PIP-Boy glove. If a single glove is enough to keep it slipping off while falling, being knocked over, or being shot at by high explosives, why do they need to burn the damn thing into your arm on the East Coast? It's a waste of old PIP-Boys, and it's probably very painful for the recipient.
     
  20. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    In fallout one and two it's never even said you 'wear' it. I always assumed it was a PDA like jobbie.