Shamus Young talks Fallout 3

[WorstUsernameEver]

You might be aware that TwentySided's Shamus Young has been doing a Fallout 3 let's play recently, and with the latest and last episode come his unflattering conclusions on the title:<blockquote>Every single faction or major actor in the game – Brotherhood, Dad, Enclave, Lone Wanderer, Regulators, Supermutants, Talon Company, Tenpenny, and Vault 101 – ALL are fundamentally broken. They either have no goals, or their goals make no sense, or their actions run counter to the goals. I’m pretty sure this is the worst game plot I’ve ever played. Everything is wrong. Nothing in the story works. Nothing in the setting works.

Fallout 3 fails as a story. It fails to match to tone of dark comedy of the original. It fails to remain true to the given setting and fails whenever it tries to expand on it. Even if you’re ignoring the previous continuity, it still fails as a self-contained setting. It fails to properly convey its theme of “sacrifice”. Its morality system is sideways and broken, even by the standards of videogame morality systems. It fails artistically and visually, giving us a monotonous wall of grey-green rubble to stare at for hour after hour. It fails mechanically, giving us a broken leveling system, unbalanced weapons, a borked economy, and a small number of useful perks in a sea of useless ones. It fails as software, giving us a bug-riddled mess of glitches. It fails as a product, giving us Games for Windows Live on top of Steam.

I know sandbox games are hard to make, but damn if this isn’t a complete mess. Some games I grow to love after repeated exposure. But every time I’ve experienced Fallout 3 I’ve come to hate it more.

Still, I guess it was fun scavenging in the subway tunnels. So the game has that going for it.</blockquote>I'm guessing he didn't like it.

EDIT: note these videos were old and reposted here because of me (Brother None). Apologies.

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

For what it's worth, Fallout and Fallout 2 didn't really have much of an economy, and they absolutely had this problem "... a small number of useful perks in a sea of useless ones." But he never really denied that, and everything else is pretty spot on.

 

[4too]

Never Forget

Never Forget



Google fallout 3 gets best writer award, and click …. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132395/exploring_a_devastated_world_emil_.php?print=1

At the Game Developers Choice Awards during GDC, Fallout 3 picked two highly impressive awards: Game of the Year and Best Writing. …

You just won best game and best writing at the Game Developers Choice Awards.

Emil Pagliarulo: Yeah! We did. The shock that people saw was legitimate. I'm actually really shocked at the writing award. I'm shocked at all these award shows where GTA IV hasn't won. I expected them to win. I think the writing in GTA IV is awesome. For us to win over GTA IV, I can't get a bigger honor than that.
…

2013, under the light of Shamus Young's opinion, Pagliarulo's "shock and awe" about the writing award takes on more lustrous lulz!

I am certain there are standards, but the who, what. when. where. and whine are delightfully faith based. Any possible factual fig-leaf inside this circle of agreement ls blown away by the inrush of competing motivations.

Once again the convergence of agreement was a marriage of convenience, and /or ... matters little what the Emperor is wearing or not wearing.

As long as he's not shy when on parade!

B-Soft published a game that year: sales success, wins inside industry awards. and ?



4too

 

[Crni Vuk]

Those awards are not thrown out for quality content but actually who has the most success in marketing. Those awards as much about quality like I don't know, americas idol is about "quality".

Its about who is famous, thats why you always see those faces winning those "gaming" awards that have strong and big companies behind them usually. I am talking about such silly awards like game of the year or "best writing". Because honestly, there are games out there which REALLY deserve it. But those are games usually made by smaller teams with a lot smaller budged. They don't throw out millions to marketing, TV spots and the like. And they don't sell 10 million units from their games so they fall under the radar.

But an writing award to Fallout 3 ... yeah ... though it was an weak year back then.

 

[gumbarrel]

These videos are like 3 years old. And he did like the game overall, he thought that the story was garbage, though.

Because honestly, there are games out there which REALLY deserve it. But those are games usually made by smaller teams with a lot smaller budged. They don't throw out millions to marketing, TV spots and the like. And they don't sell 10 million units from their games so they fall under the radar.

Most indie games are not much better in the story department than most mainstream titles. Most game stories are not that great, indie or otherwise.

 

[Crni Vuk]

still SOME of them deserve the award A LOT more then Fallout 3 did. Yet none of those games would ever get that award because they do not even get close to the marketing and attention Fallout 3 had. Hence why I said its an popularity award, like many of the "big" ones.

I mean its not so much an problem with movies. Some get awards for special effects and other movies get awards for great acting, because thats what that movie did well. No problem to give different movies different awards

But with games its only about popularity. Could you imagine an game by Spiderweb software (just as example!) geting an writer award? Heh. People would be screaming OMG! THAT GAME HAS SOOO BAD GRAPHIX!!!! HOW COULD THEY GIVE IT THAT WRITING AWARD!

 

[warsaw]

Looking at the list of mainstream games released in 2008... yeah, there really weren't any contenders for "best writing" that year. Still think GTAIV should have taken it.

Oddly enough, though, Fallout 3 wasn't on any top 10 best selling lists (at least according to wikipedia )

 

[TheGM]

For what it's worth, Fallout and Fallout 2 didn't really have much of an economy

What the hades are you talking about? FO 1/2 explained how their economy worked. other then New Reno it wasn't head scratching stupid. Even New Reno's problem(to a degree) wasn't the gambling part, but the whole Junkie horde thing.

Fallout 3's economy makes no sense. Towns? none, but we got a couple villages that don't really do anything. Farming? Nope. Clean Water.....heh heh Nope, but we do got this water purifier that pumps in contaminated water, cleans it, then dumps it back in with the polluted water..... Major Trading Hub? YOU BET-CHA! It's just tucked away in the corner of the map with a population of about 9 people.

Not to mention the enormous never ending horde know simply as "The Raiders". What do these Raiders, raid, since there is nothing to raid? Got me. Slavers who just happen to enslave people from....stop asking questionsville population: YOU! that's where.

 

[AtomBomb]

Since when does anyone give a shit about a review from some youtube kid? I mean, I really enjoyed all fallout games...except for BOS...but i mean....come on, who really did? I'll go as far to say who gives a shit about a review from anyone? If you like a movie, music album, or game enough then you really shouldn't pay attention to some review of it, especially one like that. Coming from a complete amateur...but really anyone.

 

[egalor]

Fallout 3 fails

Captain Obvious to the rescue?

Well, I usually omit/forgive those inconsistencies in the games, provided they are fun to play. And FO3 bored the hell outta me after first hour of playing, although I did do a single playthrough within a year or two.

One more big thing I was annoyed with, is the wrong way of perceiving the sacrifice. It just didn't fit into FO universe at all.

You just won best game and best writing at the Game Developers Choice Awards.

4too

Hey, why not? The writing might have been good - I'm no expert at that - but it just didn't fit Fallout. Another game - it might have been okay, but just not in FO.

I mean, I really enjoyed all fallout

And that's okay! The game isn't bad regardless of what they say, it's playable and has some deepness to it. The biggest problem this community has with FO3 (as I understand it), is that it's not what's been expected from the next FO game at that time. And duly so. It's just completely different, not inherently bad, but not to my and some other NMAers taste, that's all.

 

[Lexx]

Re: Never Forget

You just won best game and best writing at the Game Developers Choice Awards.

4too

Hey, why not? The writing might have been good - I'm no expert at that - but it just didn't fit Fallout. Another game - it might have been okay, but just not in FO.

Nope, it was pretty shitty.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

These videos are like 3 years old. And he did like the game overall, he thought that the story was garbage, though.

Both the video and the post are from 2 days ago and in the post and comments he says that the game has fundamental flaws on almost all levels so... what are you talking about?

 

[Tagaziel]

What the hades are you talking about? FO 1/2 explained how their economy worked. other then New Reno is wasn't head scratching stupid. Even New Reno's problem(to a degree) wasn't the gambling part, but the whole Junkie horde thing.

New Reno wasn't stupid, it just had a somewhat shaky position. However, wouldn't a city with no real law be a haven for criminal elements in a wasteland that becomes increasingly ordered? If you look at the Map, Reno is surrounded by communities where civic order exists and law is enforced.

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

For what it's worth, Fallout and Fallout 2 didn't really have much of an economy

What the hades are you talking about? FO 1/2 explained how their economy worked. other then New Reno is wasn't head scratching stupid. Even New Reno's problem(to a degree) wasn't the gambling part, but the whole Junkie horde thing.

I'm actually talking about the game mechanics of economy in FO 1/2, not the plausability of the locations.

 

[TheGM]

What the hades are you talking about? FO 1/2 explained how their economy worked. other then New Reno is wasn't head scratching stupid. Even New Reno's problem(to a degree) wasn't the gambling part, but the whole Junkie horde thing.

New Reno wasn't stupid, it just had a somewhat shaky position. However, wouldn't a city with no real law be a haven for criminal elements in a wasteland that becomes increasingly ordered? If you look at the Map, Reno is surrounded by communities where civic order exists and law is enforced.

I was referencing(poorly) how stupid FO3's economy is.

The whole New Reno economy discussion would be yet another chapter of . HOWEVER!!!! With a entire city built on sin & vice sitting in the middle of a major trade network, there is no way a legion of cracked out zombies would be allowed to wander the main strip.

It just ain't good for business.

 

[Tagaziel]

I was referencing(poorly) how stupid FO3's economy is.

The whole New Reno economy discussion would be yet another chapter of . HOWEVER!!!! With a entire city built on sin & vice sitting in the middle of a major trade network, there is no way a legion of cracked out zombies would be allowed to wander the main strip.

It just ain't good for business.

From what I remember, the main strip was populated by whores and Jet dealers. Junkies were shoved aside into ruined buildings.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

For what it's worth, Fallout and Fallout 2 didn't really have much of an economy

What the hades are you talking about? FO 1/2 explained how their economy worked. other then New Reno is wasn't head scratching stupid. Even New Reno's problem(to a degree) wasn't the gambling part, but the whole Junkie horde thing.

I'm actually talking about the game mechanics of economy in FO 1/2, not the plausability of the locations.

And people always talk of the plausibility of the economy of the setting.

Trying to shove a realistic economy model in games like these...I don't know if it would be a good idea.

 

[Crni Vuk]

it has not to be "realistic", just "believable".

There's an big difference, and sometimes it depends on the visuals as well the presentation. Take a game like Fallout 3 with its "3D" engine as example where you can get very close and thus a lot of it has to be there in detail. A single shack and 1 farm to support thousands of people? That doesnt really make sense. And no one can tell you that the vault you are "born" in was made for thousands of people either. The visuals might be better, but the world is still "smaller" from the feeling. I guess an area like Shady Sands in Fallout 2 would represent an whole Fallout 3 area. But why show everything? A lot of the content in Fallout 3 is just that, content without any meaning.

In Fallout 1/2 though you had the map and traveling around would take like days in game time.The game would still always give you the feeling that for example towns would be a lot bigger and you would only visit places that are interesting or have something to do with your story. Like when you get to the edge of the screen of some farm you could always assume that it was an very large area for example.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

I really don't want to put words into Guiltyofbeingtrite's mouth, but Crni, you're still missing the point. Economy mechanics as in: how you get the basic currency, what options you have to spend it, what trade-offs you have to make along the line, how much money you accumulate, what uses there are for your money, are they all equally interesting, etc.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yeah well, it is relatively easy at some point to get masses of coins in both F1 and F2.

But that never really bothered me. But thats just me. I mean at that point you had your power armor anyway.