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Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, May 11, 2009.
Some things I said in response to a similar idea said by someone of the Bethesda Forums:
The following is not a comment on you or your post The Enclave 86, rather to eliminate the damn thought set of FEV popping up everywhere because 'it is cool'.
According to Fallout 1's canon from which all other canon is dervived, the history goes as follows
As clearly mentioned in these texts that are from Fallout 1 itself, at no point there were other FEV 'factories' in the United States other than Mariposa military base that had been specifically build or re-purposed for FEV research and West Tek itself were FEV was initially created.
Nor are there are any Vaults mentioned were FEV research would take place, not to mention that this goes against the nature of the experiments that took place in the Vaults.
So again, there was only West Tek and Mariposa, no other facility!
My thanks goes to the Vault Wiki and the writer who took the time to write this all down from Fallout 1.
Explanation is simple: Someone else wanted to use FEV to further their own goals and wanted to do so in relative secrecy.
How? Uh... science?
Well that's a relatively easier arguement to write down
FEV and FEV2 were relative new before the War and the government honestly wasn't going to let others take samples.
After the War?
The only place with FEV2 was the Mariposa ruins which were inaccessible until the Enclave excavated it.
And the place is within NCR borders, they sure will not let people just go in and take FEV2.
Do I need to remind that it requires an advanced industrial and scientific infrastructure to create FEV2.
Its not something you make in a shack.
Plus your excuse is cheap, basically being FEV should be around because 'its cool'.
Okay perhaps a bit long but it leaves no plot holes.
I am not posting this laughable justification from Bethesda as anykind of counter-arguement, I merely want your opinion on it. It comes from the terminal of the head scientist in Vault 87:
The latest subjects in the Evolutionary Experimentation Program (EEP) are showing some promise after only a single exposure to the modified FEV. We are currently testing five subjects, two males and three females. Each one of them is under 24 hour observation as usual. We hope to have a breakthrough in this strain as the continual pressure from Vault-Tec and the military at Mariposa is becoming most bothersome.
I didn't say it was a good way to explain it, I just said you could say someone within the government is behind it.
I really don't care that much though.
I remember this entry and I wonder what's the point of another program (the EEP) if its goal was the same as the other one. Even worse, this almost makes it look like reasearch was done only at V87 (also why is V-T directly involved with the experiment?).
Because of stupid that's why; in the detailed post at the top of the page I explain just how ridiculous it is that Vault 87 even exists. It doesn't make sense by any logic, the Vault was finished in 2071 and FEV was created in 2075 which must mean that the Enclave changed the experiments of the Vault to incorporate the FEV tests; meaning that the Enclave shouldn't have had to go to Mariposa for FEV infomation because they have the ability to moniter the Vaults from the Oil Rig. This is just one of many possible arguements against Vault 87's existance.
Its been a while since I played FO3 and I have no intention anymore to do so but this is ridiculous.
Was the Vault already closed before the War?
If so, why?
And what pressure from Mariposa?
In that little time they had that year they already started research at both Mariposa and a Vault that shouldn't even be occupied nor was overseen by the military?
In the days before the War?
Maxson and his men had already taken control of the base after they discovered that FEV research was being performed on arrested soldiers, sending a message that they seceded from the Union and still wondering why they got no transmission back.
Again, this is plain stupid.
Vault 87, EEP, and yet another strain of FEV are just grabbed completely out of the blue and do not fit Fallout canon at all.
Actually there are some details in FO3 that seems to imply that all the vaults were closed before the war (weeks? months?), at least the DC ones. Which make sense IMO if the vaults were what they were meant to be (i.e. shelters) but contradicts canon and doesn't make sense with the Vault Experiment in mind because...what would have happened if the war never erupted? The government would have had to re-open the vaults at some point and how would they have explained the experiments? Because, of course, the experiments still began immediately after the vaults were closed. A mess.
I'll suggest that we simply forget about vault experiments. It was a shitty idea in Fallout 2, it was shitty done in Fallout 3 and FNV didn't made it much better either. Vault experiments are just stupid lulzy stuff that don't made much sense anyway... especially because every single Vault had some stupid experiment connected with it.
Maybe Van Burne might have expanded upon it with the Enclave taking Bloomingfields before the War. But as of now they serve no purpose and are just excuses for the Lulz; in Fallout 2 they were feisable for the most part, 13 indefinate isolation, 15 mixed ethnic groups, 8 Control Vault and Richardson mentioned one with all men, one with less food synthesisers (soemthing else which appears to have been forgotten) and one which would open after six months.
From that Bethesda made two super soldier Vaults, one about Clones or something, Vault 13 again and took that one from the Bible with the drugs.
Vault 101 was taken from the Vault too, though, if I'm not mistaken.
And Vault 108 (the one with the clones) was another complete mess. Officially the experiment was to study conflict for leadership and power in a Vault, with the Overseer dying of cancer within 40 months and undesignated positions of power. What the hell have the clones to do with this?
Even more ludicrous the only log you can find in the Vault says that they cloned 53 Garys and they had no place for others. So that means that 53 persons slaughtered a whole vault? But there's more! The main power supply was also scheduled to malfunction after 240 months and the back-up power supply was intentionally insufficient to meet the Vault's needs, which logically should mean that the clones were made during that timeframe, right? Which means that magically the clones survived in a broken down vault for 180 years.
I hate Bethesda writers...
Yeah I know, the madness never stops right? I mean come on it's common sense, what are these people eating and drinking, who runs the place. But this is Bethesda were lulz and dungeon crawling go before making things make sense *cough* Optimus Prime *cough*.
Who needs reason when you have Magicka?
Forget that. How can they be still alive despite being 180 years old? Those clones are like the SMs?
Same with the insane survivor... I think that trying to write a Vault Dweller is difficult so Bethesda just made all of the Vaults - of which there were FAR to many - failures.
I liked the idea of the Vault Experiments in FO2 as it gave a more sinister explanation to why so many of the Vaults failed for one reason or another.
But then it was done for 'lulz' and that pretty much killed it for me.
I think the Vault Experiments concept should be retired unless it can be used in a really good way.
No more wacky Vault shenanigans.
The idea was ok, although I agree that they overdid it in the last two games. The old FOs each had like, I dunno, 2 or 3 vaults, at max? (VaultWiki doesn't work at the moment, can't check)
Fo3 & FoNV each has like 6 or 7. They doesn't seem to realize that there were vaults in another parts of the country too, and although I don't live in US, I don't think it that small that each small region can have 6 vaults. They'll run out of them eventually.
At most, if we have a game set somewhere in the South, DC Super Mutants could migrate there and at least have the obligatory Mutant presence in a Fallout game.