The real reasons people hate Bethesda

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Ziggy Stardust, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Also the Lone Wanderer was the chosen before Broken Steel DLC, because he had to sacrifice himself to stop the purifier from getting destroyed. You had no choice, and even characters that could do it without dying would refuse to do it because it was the Lone Wanderer's "fate" to die in the purifier...
    Sounds a lot like a chosen one.
     
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  2. Daniel The NCR Veteran

    Daniel The NCR Veteran I'm NCR and Proud.

    95
    Apr 9, 2018
    Oh god guys, do we really have to praise The Lone Wanderer of all people? The TV on legs that isn't actually even the main character? The person who's just a shadow of his father that doesn't even deliver the badass ending speeches, plans the battle, or needs any skill to convince someone as you'd tell them anything and there's a chance they'll believe it? He's not a chosen one, he's forced. How the fuck can you force something when there's clearly a better choice? Like the ending is so god-awful in every way. His goal was to activate the purifier, not fucking kill himself during the process if he can choose the better option to survive... But oh well, shows how much Bethesda care about choice in a RPG game, literally making the ending a forced "fate".
    Honestly I'd just play as James and just explore the wasteland, do everything myself, watch my son get killed by the Enclave (not in the same circumstances as James did, of course) AND ACTUALLY HAVE A FUCKING REASON TO GO AGAINST THE ENCLAVE BECAUSE OF THAT. Oh wow, the Enclave wants to activate the purifier anyway but claim it's theirs. What the fuck is wrong with that? Why did James suddenly become a prideful prick when he knows the Enclave just wanted the greater good to be done anyway? Despite their other evil actions? People still pay for their pure water so even if they priced it, it wouldn't make a difference. The Enclave isn't a real antagonist, it's just something to shoot at along with the almighty BoS. I'd much rather be James and go around the wasteland finding everything, including people, to make Project Purity functional, meet my son after so long, see him die by the hands of the Enclave during all this then have a motive of revenge to go against them, sort of like the Courier's initial motive to get going. Then the Enclave would sabotage Project Purity right when it was ready the same way like James did to kill Autumn in the orginial Fallout 3, at one point I'd kill the Enclave and get everything in order, probably plan an attack using Liberty Prime and the BoS and then go in and blow up Raven Rock, making sure Colonel Autumn is also dead along with everyone else. After they're done with and there's nothing in my way, I'd then go in the purifier and die in the process because I bet that Bethesda still wouldn't let you choose Fawkes in this better version of the story.
    See? I made a better story that would honestly wouldn't be as bad as this forced "Son of a hero" bullshit.
     
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  3. KingArthur

    KingArthur Fat Boi On a Diet; Don’t Try It

    Jun 25, 2018
    Oh, but if you played as James you'd lose "Player Agency" and customization; and Beth can't have that :roll:

    EDIT: Look at that folks; maybe Bethesda is good for something. Mutual hatred brings Legion supporters and profligates NCR supporters together.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  4. Okay so nobody watched the video and are just throwing the buzzword around to pretend like it's a bad thing, with selective memory, cool.
     
  5. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Let this serve as a lesson. No one watches boring looking videos on forums.
    Next time please write the message of the video too so people will pay attention and know your point. :twitch:
     
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  6. Daniel The NCR Veteran

    Daniel The NCR Veteran I'm NCR and Proud.

    95
    Apr 9, 2018
    I don't watch trash twice. But I keep my opinion on it and I remember it until the end of time. Same with Fallout 3, I haven't played it for months and hey look at me I know 90% of it to have arguments. Including DLCs
     
  7. I'm aware, I guess I'm just overestimating the level of discourse as always. It's a really good and concise video with cute drawings to keep thine AHDD ridden heads on it, but the option would be copypasta-ing the definition for nobody to read it anyway, so eh.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2018
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  8. LuciusCorneliusSulla

    LuciusCorneliusSulla First time out of the vault

    29
    Sep 23, 2018
    I first played Fallout 3 then some years later I played New Vegas which would be my favourite game for awhile. Tried to get into Fallout 1 numerous times after buying the classics on steam and despite its foreignness (never played isometric rpgs before) I eventually got into it. Fallout 1 has by far the best story and immersion imo. Even if it isn't morally grey like later games.

    Anyways it's hardly nostalgia. Fallout 3 and 4 just have a lot of problems. 4 more than any other. But I really like some parts in 3 (the capitol itself feels like a war when you first get there, honestly better designed the the end game march to the purifier). And 4 did improve some things. But at this point I couldn't care less about Fallout. 76's announcement is the first time I haven't even bothered watching the reveal for. I might play it some day but most likely not.

    I don't hate Bethesda. They found a formula to success and plan to stick to it. I just think Fallout deserved better. It's dead now though. Almost every original fan or fan of the originals are completely apathetic to current Fallout. Oh well.
     
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  9. Muttie

    Muttie It Wandered In From the Wastes

    194
    Oct 9, 2017
    This is a bit late, but I got sick, so I had to recover first, before I could share my thoughts:

    When I started to dislike a company or product (not just Bethesda), and it made me bitter and sick to my guts, it was usually when I struggled with the “franchise” concept.
    There were so many hobbies I cared about. (like Blood Bowl, a boardgame, in which I invested years of work, or Star Wars, then George lost his touch). Eventually the owners will always just do with it, whatever they want to, and being a loyal fan is nothing but a set up for disappointment or submission. I like Classic Fallout on NMA much better. It works a bit like the EU universe of Star Wars, people put out their stuff, and if you don't like it, ignore it, and if you do like it, include it. That's how I treated Star Wars novels. And in my opinion that's the only dynamic in which franchises can work. In any other scenario the community gets either screwed over by the owner, or everyone suffers in the infighting. Being a loyal fan (which relents all rights of a customer) is a terrible move. Not only are franchises problematic in itself, but being a loyal fan, instead of a customer, is a state, that benefits no one but relieves the manufacturer of producing quality.
    However, the anger in regard to Bethesda is imo that they stole the Fallout franchise (well, bought it), changed it (updated/modernized whatever the PR BS said), and gave it to other people. That's basically what happened. And of course, that's frustrating. However, those people will get screwed in turn, too. :) because that's the way of the franchise.
    Anyway, I'm not angry about that, because I don't have to. Classic Fallout is doing great (even better) without an imposed ruler. There's Fallout Fixt, Fallout Restoration Project, Fallout Resurrection, Fallout Nevada and it looks as if two more titles are in the pipe. That's four stellar titles, plus two more in the future, and then there are several other projects/mods that are worth a try. In fact I'm so filled up with options I haven't even played Nevada yet (or Crazy Edition!), or finished all paths in RP.
    All considered, Classic Fallout has very few touching points with Bethesda or their franchise. It's de facto two different game series. And as long as they don't rain on our parade (IP bullying), everything's fine. I think Bethesda is even creating traction for Fallout Classic (so good by them).
    I think people who quarrel with Bethesda, are not so much Fallout Classic fans on NMA, but people who are still playing Bethesda games, don't like them but have no alternative to their “franchise”. Those people are in constant pain and misery. But it does not apply to Classic Fallout fans on NMA. We're cool. :cool: (and busy).

    P.S. I'm pretty skeptical regarding the future of franchises, too. It probably can't die (?), but it's barely 70 years old and already a complete mess. The oldest franchises are probably Doyle's Sherlock Holmes and Balzac's attempt to create a fictitious Paris, at least if ignoring mythologies and religions (cough, cough). And it took off with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, I would say. And all that is fairly recent. Also companies like Bethesda would draw a lot less flak if they would just offer a product, instead ruling a person's entire life, as a franchise does. A franchise is basically like this new idea that computer games are not sold but only lent, and they can delete parts of the purchased product off your PC anytime they want. A franchise is the same, they just do it in your head.
     
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  10. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber

    Jun 1, 2018
    A video that's longer than 3 or 5 minutes is likely going to be skipped over if the video isn't something that captures the reader's attention. I watched it because I wanted to see what it said.

    And the way that video is set up would not inherently keep someone with ADHD's attention.

    I'd say that a concise paragraph or two would have sufficed better. Maybe mention there are multiple types of Chosen Ones in literature and then give the definition of the Fallout 2's Chosen One to keep it shorter on your end of the conversation so you people would actually read it or at least anyone worth arguing with would.
     
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  11. Zobra

    Zobra First time out of the vault

    9
    Oct 18, 2018
    It is only you who get hurt by pooring your feelings and energy on an abstract entity that is a company. They way to go is to pour that energy on the culture that forms the company instead. The culture/structure is something that is moldable and what controlls the company in the end.
     
  12. Muttie

    Muttie It Wandered In From the Wastes

    194
    Oct 9, 2017
    I believe you mean that it's better to put energy in a modding community than getting frustrated with the company owning the franchise.

    That's my point. :)

    The frustration is that at any moment the owner can come around the corner and has the right to kick all your stuff through the room. Like a playground bully.

    Having constantly to rebuild after that happens is what makes the “franchise” concept difficult for me.

    And that is assuming that rebuilding is even possible afterwards. As that isn't always the case.

    In fact, a lot of people are probably praying that there is never a remastered version of Fallout Classic, as that intervention may cause a lot of damages. Fallout Classic, as it currently is, only works well because it is left alone.

    That's how I feel about franchises and the companies owning them. They assume way too much control over my life.
     
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  13. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    So here's my two cents.

    I like Fallout 3 and 4 for what they are. But they aren't Fallout games.

    F3 is just an open sandbox with some neat ideas, but lacks any substance overall that those neat ideas come across more as individual chapters of different books (there is no connecting line outside of you).

    Fallout 4, now I've had a lot of time with it, is a step in the right direction compared to F3 in terms of being a sandbox, but lacks any real direction and instead becomes a complete mess.

    My issues with both are independent of Bethesda and some issues are independent of their namesake.
    Fallout 3 is a game where the game plays itself. You have very little control in what happens, and what choice you do get is so far out of place that it feels artificial.
    The whole plot is 'let's start a war over who presses a button'

    Fallout 4 has a bit of a better structure with player choice at least being stepped up a tiny bit. Sadly, it doesn't feature the consequences of your actions. Siding with the Brotherhood won't warrant a different outcome over siding with the Railroad.

    In fact, what is the aftermath of our actions in side quests?

    Both (to me) are dumb fun action games that I can play when I want to switch off.
     
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  14. Draitex

    Draitex Northern Beast from the Swedish tundra

    142
    Aug 5, 2016
    1. I played Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim as a ''kid'' And Nostalgia blinded me, until I finished New Vegas along with, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, at the age of 17(I played them 2012) and noticed how shit BGS was in comparison.
    ((Cards on the table, when i first tried NV, I did not like it at all, but when I grew up and started to enjoy good writing and well made worlds with rich lore, I saw Fallout 3 as the abomination it was, and I started to LOVE New Vegas, along with the Original Fallout 1 and 2.))

    2. ''Less at stake'' if anything they had more at stake cause taking too big risks might've bankrupted them or gotten them *controversial* recognition, and people would boycott them.((This fucking happens still to this day, so it's not far fetched))
    ((Like people crying over the lesbian scenes in TLOU, Naughty dog will get enough copies sold without those who boycott their games, unlike say Black Isle, who depended on getting enough copies sold))

    3. They are **Mainstreamed** to the point of losing it's identity. Fallout before was about story, choices, characters, the world, and how you affected it. Now it's about Nuka-Cola, Fat-men, Power Armor and Nukes.
    ((Bethesda has trashed the lore to shit, and retconned it to hell. Case in point: New Vegas FIXED some of the plotholes of Fallout 3, explaining how Enclave headed east, explaining BoS better and those who defected to *Lyons*, They even wrote in Salvaged power armor, to explain why NCR can't use it, cause of the Power Armor Training that wasn't in the first games... which is now retconned ...again.))

    4. It's a circlejerk yes. but so is the Fallout Subreddit albeit for Fallout 4, If I'm to choose between to Circlejerk games that have good writing, or circlejerk to games with toddler level of writing, I'd choose the former.
    ((All communities have Criclejerks... Hell I'd go as far to say I partake in the jerking in circle more than once, I think Fallout 1 and 2 has a lot of flaws, but almost none of it is story, writing or lorewise. (examples being: the Psyker Bosses in Fallout 2, and the Ghost... which I hated.) Fallout 3 almost all my complaints are about the writing, world building, story and lore, along with the myriad of gameplay complaints, Although I don't mind the switch to Openworld TPP/FPP, If anything I sorta prefer it.
    New Vegas has a lot of flaws too, but In my honest opinion the least flaws, and by far the most enjoyable game for me, sure the Legion felt underdeveloped along with the Strip being anticlimatic, but I still loved it.))

    4b: my two most Hated games ever created are Fallout 4 and Fallout 76, that's my actual feelings about the current BGS Fallouts, atleast 3 had **Some** Player Freedom and RPG feel to it, despite the horrendous writing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  15. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    All internet communities are circle jerks that eventually repeat the same cycle over and over and over and over again until you eventually grow tired of the "thing you like" because you have been talking about it your entire adult life. That is assuming that thing you like has died or no longer produces things of interest.

    Bethesda has always been catering to the mindless masses. If you were once a mindless child, you likely loved it. I know my young adult brain liked it more than this tired old frame does. Now I cannot LARP or ROLEPLAY to entertain myself, because I am not fucking playing pretend here. I want to play a video game.
     
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  16. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    I'm not ashamed to admit i liked Oblivion the first time i played it back in 2007. Same thing with Skyrim but to a lesser degree. But at that time i had no idea what a RPG was actually like and trying Oblivion after that just made me aware just how terrible the game is overall. Skyrim was even worse, these two games became nigh unplayable to me.


    Fallout 3 on the other hand, i hate this game on my first playthrough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  17. Draitex

    Draitex Northern Beast from the Swedish tundra

    142
    Aug 5, 2016
    So did I, Infact it was tied with Kotor 2 as my fave game for a long time, I even liked skyrim the first time I played it, blinded by by fanboy googles.
    Now I enjoy like 4 missions in Oblivion and the rest I find bland and boring...but still much better than skyrim.

    However as I said, I really loved Fallout 3 when i played it first... but as I said I was young and it was my first interaction with the world and fallout universe... now I see it for what it is... but still, vastly prefer 3 over 4.
     
  18. Paladin Hank

    Paladin Hank Still Mildly Glowing

    232
    May 6, 2018
    Wow you're lucky. My first "RPG" was Fallout 4, and I enjoyed the crap out of that game initially. Then I played New Vegas. And 1 and 2.
    Haven't touched 4 since.
     
  19. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber

    Jun 1, 2018
    And you shouldn't be. Before Oblivion I hadn't touched much or nearly anything that people call RPGs outside of a few games, I had played mostly on consoles and some random PC games. I didn't have an Xbox 360 when the game came out and all my friends raved about it. I bought it for my PC, it ran terribly on my old machine and I loved it. I never had played a game like that. I never had the modding abilities for a game. Oblivion is the start of me finding more bad RPGs until that led me to good ones, and the start of me buying games on PC more and more. It set me up for what I play now and I appreciate that.

    I don't even absolutely hate Oblivion now but a lot of it has to be due to nostalgia. I'll still say Lego Island 1 and 2 were awesome but if I replayed it or discovered it now, I'd likely be thinking, "What the fuck is this?" Nostalgia is okay in my books, as long as you can admit the games probably aren't that good or you can look at it from a different perspective now while appreciating how you felt about it at the time. Nostalgia causing you to claim games are masterpieces or insanely good games however, is silly nonsense.

    My point is nostalgia lets me say, I loved Oblivion it was so fun! My actual thought processes tell me, Oblivion had a lot of major flaws in design and writing it's not a game worthy of critical praise. Oblivion did a lot of things wrong but I will never not have my fond memories of the Dark Brotherhood questlines when I was 14 or so. If people shit on Oblivion I usually understand why and I usually agree with their points. The skill system there sucked ass too. It was terrible and annoying.