Tim Cain interview on Matt Chat, part 2

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Per, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Dario ff

    Dario ff Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    423
    Aug 19, 2008
    Well, if we ponder about the point of the forum, we have lots of discussions here. Only by discussing with other people we come to realise and define what was wrong, what should be fixed. We narrow the problems down, we debate which could be left out, which are the most important.

    Then there are the reviews, which can be found at the homepage. To be fair, I think we don't really bash F3 so often, 90% of the time we do because a random dude registers, tells us we're all wrong, and then everyone repeats itself. Heck, we should have some kind of codeword to avoid repeating the same things all the time.
     
  2. cunningandvalor

    cunningandvalor It Wandered In From the Wastes

    132
    Aug 27, 2009
    Here, it's objective. Every where else it's subjective. Maybe Duck and Cover too, but other than that it's a bunch of people focused on what changed their lives versus people who want to say "No, if God gave us Fallout, then this is what he wanted us to do with it."

    And there's Todd Howard.
     
  3. choconutjoe

    choconutjoe First time out of the vault

    19
    Jul 5, 2010
    I never said anything of the sort.

    You've pretty much just paraphrased everything I've argued in this thread so far. If you agree with me, I don't know why you're swearing at me.
     
  4. tekhedd

    tekhedd Hoarding ammo IS gameplay

    206
    Oct 28, 2008
    And this, you see, is important.

    Not everyone agrees with you. In fact, the people you are trying to convince start out not agreeing with you. You might want to have this in mind when you proofread your postings.

    I have found in life that when people are shouting at me and I don't know why, usually it is because I missed something important.
     
  5. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    I'm talking in general. I lost the count of the times I read that reviews and judgements of games "are opinions and therefore can't be wrong".
     
  6. choconutjoe

    choconutjoe First time out of the vault

    19
    Jul 5, 2010
    Do you mean that my posts seem overly contentious?
     
  7. tekhedd

    tekhedd Hoarding ammo IS gameplay

    206
    Oct 28, 2008
    I mean that you're in a place where a lot of people who love the old-school RPG style congregate, and have for many years. Also many people who enjoy playing the new games. There have been many (rolleyes) discussions about exactly how F3 was wrong/right/succeeded/failed, in much depth. A large number of the regulars here were/are disappointed with F3, and so anything that implies "why don't you leave poor F3 alone" is pretty much contentious already, since they're only holding back from F3-bothering because it's such a tired subject already. :)

    I mean, there's a lot of history...there's bad blood between Bethesda and the loyal fan base of every game they touch, Fallout being only the most recent. So... yeah you have to understand the context here.

    In my experience, whenever people are shouting it's either because of miscommunication, or over some girl.
     
  8. Nonagon

    Nonagon Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jul 8, 2006
    I think this video was actually better than the last one. I'm glad Tim wanted to do these interviews. Can't wait until part 3, hoping for a part 4.
     
  9. choconutjoe

    choconutjoe First time out of the vault

    19
    Jul 5, 2010
    I see. Well, maybe I was foolish to get involved. I'll keep my thoughts on the subject to myself in the future.
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    This. It seems people forget many times that Fallout wasnt the first IP Bethesda had in one way or another its hands on. Ever watched a Star Trek forum regarding the game which was published by Bethesda ? Now THOSE people are poor souls ...

    Then you DO understand why people disslike Fallout 3 as "Fallout" game. You just enjoy it for a different reason.

    Look. What ever if you enjoy the game or not is trivial. No one here will seriously dispute that you "can" enjoy Fallout 3. Its a game afterall. But when you here already agree that its "not" a RPG ~ or something else, then how can it be "good" in comparision to previous Fallout games that have been clear RPGs ? Isnt Fallout 3 missing inherently something compared to previous games ? How is then wrong to say that Fallout 3 might be a fun game for it self eventually but not a good game in the Fallout franchise ? Particularly when its missing some of the aspects that made the past games important and I am not only talking about gameplay here. Gameplay is important but it can be very superficial. The writting which is deep in the content was one of the core aspects of the Fallout games. And which made it so succesfull as RPG. next to the importance of skills for example.

    Do you really expect some answer to that ? Jeez. People bash BOS or Tactics and some people at Interplay just as they do with Bethesda and Fallout 3. Its a forum people talk about it. We are maybe a bit different to places like the Beth forum but I doubt we are more cynical then most people there. Particularly when you take a look in to those parts of the forum where "old" fans of the TES setting start to talk about Oblivion. But my intention is not to bash their forum here.
     
  11. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah First time out of the vault

    29
    Jun 5, 2010
    That sounds great, and certainly not something I want to discourage. However, I was referring more to the not so few and not so constructive snide remarks that I've seen, that as far as I can remember (but I'm kind of new here) often isn't a reaction to some FO3-loving random dude either.

    But in any event, hardly a big deal and I don't have much more to say on the issue.
     
  12. Aphyosis

    Aphyosis Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    473
    Nov 4, 2009
    I never said people needed justification to like it. But essentially, yeah. The fact it's attempting to masquerade as a Fallout game is the issue. If the game wasn't related to the Fallout license, it wouldn't be a problem. People could make up their minds based on its merit's and like it for other reasons, which is obviously what has happened for a lot of its fan base.

    Not really. The Fallout games became popular because of these prerequisite elements and because they did them well. That's not a personal expectation, its a fact.

    For a game to be a proper sequel, it needs to carry on these elements. It could still be a good game without them, sure, but as a sequel it's quality is debatable.
     
  13. fedaykin

    fedaykin Vault Fossil

    Jul 15, 2007
    Boy, you sure told that NiRv4n4 guy there, NiRv4n4.
     
  14. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    I want steak...

     
  15. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah First time out of the vault

    29
    Jun 5, 2010
    He likes FO3:

    But also:

    Of course, since there are countless ways to make a game.
     
  16. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    This whole thread sounds like a mind-blowing movie plot, with twists and turns. Once you are onto something, a small chill runs through your spine. You think you have finally figured out what the writer was trying to get you in, but you were wrong...there is another turn saying "This way to further events".

    It's dark in here, messy...scary.

    There is this...fish and steak.

    A sexy Polish waitress comes over, with your order ready.

    PW: Here's your steak, mister.
    You: But...this is a fish.

    The restaurant's manager comes.

    Manager: Is there a problem with your order , sir?
    You: Yes, I ordered a steak and you give me a fish saying it's a steak.
    Manager: I do appologise, but the rules changed...steak and fish are now both the same meals.
    You: But...

    then some random guy, who's sitting in another table

    RG:Dude, this new steak is delicious! What's wrong with you? Are you a fag?



    Apparently you did not realise, that the company that created fish products bought the steak company. To increas the sells of the steak, they changed steak into fish, still calling it a steak.


    Now, you have to pay for what you did not know, all along. You were living in a world not knowing what's in it.

    The waitress brings the cheque, you want to pay by card as you have no cash. Then it turns out:

    PW: Sorry, things changed, nobody accept cards anymore.
    You: NOOOOOOooooooo...


    The End


    "If love can be just a word, then changing steak into fish, can be just a simple change"

    Voytek Pavlik
    1987-present
     
  17. grayx

    grayx It Wandered In From the Wastes

    159
    Mar 3, 2008
    No, continue to share ideas here please. You seem like a clever person, and although I disagree with almost everything that you wrote, I had a good time reading:) But, as tekhedd have said, try to read some "history", there is indeed a lot of bad blood between some of us and that ignorant, infantile-gathering company that now have rights to Fallout IP.
     
  18. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    What does he have to gain by reconciling Bethesda's market driven McFallout RPG-lite approach to RPG design to the PnP design fundamentals that he admits in the interview to basing the whole series upon? The design philosophy and their manifestation in FO1 vs. FO3 is pretty self-evident and stark. It shouldn't need to be spelled out, he was pretty explicit in the first interview. How Bethesda "showed they had a deep understanding and knowledge" of those aspects (GURPS, PnP fundamentals) is gracious lip service. They showed greater understanding and knowledge of Oblivion, because that was the basis for FO3, and it is Oblivion's spiritual successor as evident in design philosophy and (it's lack of) RPG elements.
     
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well regarding interviews I think we will never know any devs real oppinion anyway. But I would not be surprised if they tried to do what maybe most did. Playing and enjoying it as game. Not as Fallout title.
     
  20. Beelzebud

    Beelzebud A Smooth-Skin

    675
    Mar 6, 2008
    I just have this to add. Words of wisdom from an expert.

    When asked why Diablo 3 was keeping the isometric viewpoint, and not following the trend of making it a first person perspective, Leonard Boyarsky, the lead world designer for Diablo 3, had this to say:

    But what does he know? He only designed a huge chunk of the original Fallout.