We are insignificant.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I don't get it.

    When you look at space and it's approximately 13 billion year old age, the vast distances and the incredible number of stars in the observable part of the universe and the high probability of even more stars existing beyond that barer - the observable part is not necessarily the end of the known universe, one thing always completely surprises me.

    The idea that any live form or anything else really that is capable of traveling trough this space would be even remotely interested in us as a species.

    It's such a silly concept to me that I have a hard time to imagine anyone believing in this. Seriously? What could such an entity even want from us? Having a nice chat and a cup of tea? And some have the idea they would be even coming to us intentionally seeking contact? What kind of conversations would we even have? It would be comparable to us trying to seek a conversation with worms or bacteria. That's how large the difference in our knowledge and understanding of the Universe would be.

    Stephen Hawking once said something like, he hoped we would never meet intelligent alien life. And I think he's spot on. I doubt they would even take notice from us or even care that we're here the same way we don't care about most bugs out there. But if they do, their motivations will not be altruistic. Why should it be? There is nothing to learn from us they don't know. There is no resources here that couldn't be gathered easier and faster out there. This planet is in no way special compared to the billions of other planets out there. So why come here?

    Realistically there could be only very few reasons that actually make sense.

    One of them is to destroy us. The more I think about it the more do I believe this would the most likely reason for any space faring species to visit this floating rock in space if they happen to take notice of our existence.

    And yet some people maybe even many hope we would meet them one day ... crazy in my opinion.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  2. Paladin Hank

    Paladin Hank It Wandered In From the Wastes

    191
    May 6, 2018
    How Lovecraftian of you!
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  3. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    Honestly, I think it's way more complicated than all of that.
    I think there is a tonne of things to learn from the human race, both good and bad. We seem to have this idea that any intelligent life out there is far more intelligent than us, but the truth is, what if we aren't as bad as we seem?

    I mean, as a species, we've cured illnesses, built societies, founded political philosophies, created various pieces of art and culture, created laws, found ways to regulate our needs and have created technological advancements. Fuck sake, there is stronger technology on a small device I use to watch porn on that what was used to launch a man into Space 50 years ago.
    Our problem is we have People who abuse that knowledge and power because we elect idiots into said positions of power.
    What if we have the answers to questions that aliens have? What if they are just as brutal and savage as us? What if they are too afraid to make contact with us because they see themselves as inferior.

    I guess we want to believe our issues are just human ones, but we see the animal kingdom can be just as savage and brutal.
    We're animals, we rely on our primal instincts. Countless years ago we were trying to create fire and years after that you were lucky if you reached 30.
    We've come a long way and we still have a ways to go, but we aren't doing bad all things considered.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  4. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric ((<i>)) Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007

    Give yourself a break, take a salt tablet, do 2 laps.
     
  5. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric ((<i>)) Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007

    Intelligence appreciates intelligence because intelligence in a living creature is a paradox, intelligence constantly divides the creatures being into smaller parts and thus intelligence is lonely. Intelligence and reason dictate that one has a born reflective ability outside of the reactive glandular system that must be developed with attention and awareness.

    Intelligence is highly aware of it's own weakness.


    But that doesn't mean we won't run into space orcs or a super bacteria metroid cloud.
     
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Guys guys guys. The genetic difference between a human and a chimp is in the 1-2 % range. Some males and females have a wider gab. And look at the difference between the chimp and humans, in terms of knowledge, technology and inventions. - as a species of course.

    Now imagine a civilisation or species out there with a higher difference. Just a few 1%. We might not even be capable of communicating with them. Nothing they say could be understood by any human. The same way as how we will never be capable of teaching the most intelligent chimp out there the theory of relativity or higher mathematics. It's simply not possible. The difference is to large.

    And people here seriously think those advanced aliens could learn something from us? What exactly? We would be even less to them than what chimps are for us. And how do we treat chimps? With respect? Dignity? As intelligent beings? Don't be ridiculous. At best very intelligent aliens would not notice us or care about our existence. In the worst case they would see us like flies, insects or small rodents.


    Do a little thought experiment with me. Try to remember what you've been as a 5 year old. What you thought was interesting. If that's not possible because it's to long ago take some 5 year old kid you know or look one up. What do they find interesting? What conversations do they have? And now compare that with your current age. And now multiply that with 1 billion. And now you tell me what you could learn from it.

    There is absolutely nothing any species could learn from us which is capable of traveling the vast distances in space. It's not like they would just have advanced technology in space ships or what ever they would use to fly around. They would have far more knowledge in all known and unknown sciences than we do. They could make simulations and artificial intelligences which surpass ours by far. So they would probably not even need to get here. They could just fire up their god like computers and simulate what ever the fuck they want inside it to get their answers. Which is probably 42.

    I really do believe that it is our own ego that simply has to believe that we're so important that someone else out there with such high intelligence would try to contact us or find us even interesting.
     
  7. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric ((<i>)) Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Ehhh EHhh EHhhh Intelligence is relative.

    Space octopus brain is made of fucking neurosensory olfactory shit. Unknown glands and biles and biology. People say "Intelligent life", no. Not people.

    Western morons.

    They think they are special and different from nature as usual.
     
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    immaterial giant space squids with an unhealthy lust for brain you say?

     
  9. Paladin Hank

    Paladin Hank It Wandered In From the Wastes

    191
    May 6, 2018
    Considering the ineffable vastness of the universe, I'd say there's a good chance that amongst the trillions and trillions of planets currently habitable, at least one alien species has surpassed us intellectually. Azathoth knows what these beings would look like, but one thing's for sure, encountering them or even learning of their existence would not fare well for us indeed. Luckily (or unluckily, depending on your point of view) that will most likely never happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  10. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Crni, did you take acid and look up when outside? you never look up while on acid outdoors.
     
  11. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    I have yet to see an intelligent life form. But I'm sure to give you a whoop and a holler when I do, Crni.
     
  12. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Nov 26, 2007
    There is no guarantee that we are not the oldest; nor the most advanced—the rest could all be virus, or still in the stone age.

    (Though I doubt it)

    At Topic:
    relative_size.jpg
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The moment they visit us they are probably not intelligent anymore.

     
  14. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    You know, there's only one scenario I can think of (with my limited human capabilities to think) that would encourage other civilizations to explore and colonize the universe and it's this one: they would have to interpret life as some sort of RTS game (genre Age of Empires). That way they'd see any other intelligent life form as a competitor and a threat.

    Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree with you, Crni, which doesn't happen very often. They're not going to travel light years to stand in line at the Louvre and catch a glimpse of the Mona Lisa.

    It would be interesting to discover other intelligent life in the universe, though. Even if it's only by analyzing the atmospheres of exoplanets or some technique we haven't thought of yet. One has to wonder, though: is a heavily polluted atmosphere a sign of intelligent life? Maybe truly intelligent civilizations look at the universe, sigh and stick to farming and living in huts made from mud and dung.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008

    Discovering any trace of life in the universe would be absolutely amazing. But I simply see it like Stephen Hawking. Hopefully we will never encounter anything that's intelligent enough to come here and visit us.



    Also I think as far as Space goes there are a lot of things we can agree on.

    For example.

    1. It's one of the most fascinating things out there.

    2. We probably will never get to explore it. Not in our life time at least.

    3. For a very long time telescopes will remain our only way to "observe" Space. But they will become eventually so good that we might see a lot more details.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  16. Squadcar

    Squadcar I'm spinning

    Jun 1, 2018
    I get what you're saying. And I agree. Also something to consider is the great filter for anything we find not as advanced as us.

    But let's say that we were the superior species in terms of technology and intellect. Let's say we achieve efficient travel among the stars whether it be travelling to other solar systems or anything as hopping to other galaxies or clusters. The first lifeforms we find, no matter how intelligent they are, what do you think we'll do? I don't think we'd ignore them entirely. At the least, observe them as safely as we can from a distance. We're not going to find them and think, "Ah shit, a bunch of idiots, let's move on." Because we'd be interested in seeing how things play out and learning about other life. We'd at the least study it. If there was some vastly superior lifeform that visits Earth, I'd wager they'd do the same. Especially if they haven't seen any other significantly large lifeforms elsewhere.

    I mean, what we know is limited, especially since the only intelligent life we can observe and research is on Earth but as far as I'd be able to wager, most intelligent lifeforms would also be curious and wanting to expand their knowledge. If they wanted to annihilate us or not in the end is a different bit. But they'd at least watch until they're convinced we're dangerous to them, assuming there aren't a bunch of Earth like planets out there with similar species on it at a similar area in technological and societal development that it made discovering us moot.

    There's more to learn even if we were doing the same things as they did at one point, they'd learn something from that. If we found human-like life on another planet making fires, whittling spears, tying rocks to sticks, we'd be very interested in at least observing that.

    I know I linked this somewhere before here and I don't know how accepted it is in science but I never had thought of discovering life in this sense.

    EDIT: I guess another reason they would just simply destroy us without allowing time for observation and research would be a colonization plan or emergency situations on home planets from war/pollution/etc. And they see we have something that suits their needs so they'd kick us out. Still, I think in a normal situation, we'd just be observed for awhile (not just a couple of years, probably hundreds or until something else comes up and calls for action) before contact or annihilation happens.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019