What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by FlashBash64, May 13, 2016.

  1. That's really the norm of Fallout 3 fans. They can come up with the most far fetched things and accept whatever writing they get but donnot appreciate coherence and the good in NV.
    "Boring" well then go play STALKER of COD Zombies. Fallout isn't that.
     
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  2. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    885
    Jul 30, 2009
    There's some interesting mental gymnastics at display if you skim through the post history of a member called AwesomePossum (at least in the old beth-boards if they're still up; don't know about the new ones since I was already long gone).
     
  3. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    I really fucking hate this argument. It's as if they keep their eyes closed whilst playing. You could easily use the same argument for Fallout 3. "Mostly boring ruins and dead trees."

    There's a lot of desert in NV yes (obviously) but there's always something going on or something to find.

    EDIT: Even if it was a boring desert, I give actual thought to my actions and actually give a shit about ita future and that of those living in it. I don't care at all about the Capital Wasteland.
     
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  4. Tiny Tim

    Tiny Tim Still Mildly Glowing

    203
    Sep 29, 2015
    Gameplay wise, it has a point. The "capital wasteland" may be all ruins and dead trees but it's filled with random critters shooting each other. And because their world has no logic, you really don't know what to expect which i guess can be fun. Any critter could be anywhere. Fallout 2's encounters were a bit like that.

    In New Vegas, where the world makes sense, if you take the normal roads you know exactly what to expect, there are no ramdom spawns, and in many parts of the game ( like the road from goodsprings to primm if you haven't pissed the powder gangers or a good part of the area near Freeside) you are literally just walking.


    Of course, new vegas world is about 100 times more interesting, so yeah, i agree with your last point.
     
  5. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Fallout 3 exploration for the most part is basically encountering raiders every 3 seconds with a mole rat/bloat fly/random mutant name here thrown in occasionally. It's not fun if it's there with no explanation, like a bunch of Super Mutants bumming about or again, ridiculous numbers of raiders.

    Maybe not random, but the roads aren't all safe and they lead to somewhere. With Goodsprings if you go north you'll encounter cazadors, but surviving those you'll stumble upon Vault 19 (home of Cooke's Powder Gangers) or Bonnie Springs with bandits. Heading further from B.Springs you find Red Rock, home of the Great Khans. Going off-road towards the Yangtze Memorial you find a small house you can use, coyotes which will attack if you get too close and there's Radscorpions too. Further beyond the Memorial is Sloan and the Deathclaw quarry.

    I'm not going to say that every inch of the Mojave is interesting, but you'll find more than just "Generic raiders camp here" or "Generic ruined building you cannot enter". It's not a boring desert, there is something there. Even if you don't find something you can sometimes hear gunfire in the distance. It makes the Mojave feel more alive and that you're not the only person in it.

    TL;DR I'm just trying to say it isn't a plain and boring desert. It actually has more in it than Fallout 3.

    The more interesting and believable a world is, the more invested you get in it. That's the way I see it :)
     
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  6. AlphaSlayerZX

    AlphaSlayerZX Deadpan

    253
    Oct 12, 2016
    And the saga continues.

    Lewd Ness (Me):

    "James is not poorly written at all... His character doesn't have a lot of time to be flushed out,"

    There was plenty of opportunities for Bethesda to incorporate more time for James to be fleshed out but they wasted it.

    "but in the time that you know him you realize the good that he has done and what he has done to protect you."

    The only two things he's done to protect me is take me in to Vault 101.
    Then when he left he for some reason didn't take me with him and left me behind where the Overseer and the guards wanted me dead.

    Then sacrificed himself in the purifier. Although it was kinda pointless when we consider what Col. Autumn's real plans were.

    "He led the project purity project, he's your father..., he's Liam Neeson, ect. He's a good person and I think a lot of people cared when he died."

    Yeah, he's a father who left me behind in a vault where I could've died, forced me to fight super-mutants, and killed himself only to prevent Autumn to do what he's doing but probably better. Not to save me at all.

    "John Henry Eden is a computer. Bethesda followed a typical sci-fi trope and you can kill him with a logical fallacy, but otherwise you could access his terminal as it is shown that Autumn had the ability to "end" him if he felt the need to."

    The idea that you could stop the leader of a big faction/army like the Enclave with a logical fallacy so easily is just beyond stupid.

    "Little Lamplight is a little weird, but it is explained how it works. It is assumed that they reproduce and the whole "mungo" thing didn't come on until a bit later. They have excess amounts of cave moss and water sources. The moss and other plant life could serve as food, although a bit far fetched. Water seems to be uncontaminated ground water. It probably wouldn't work, but that is the assumed justification."

    So they've been feeding their hunger with just cave plants and water.

    For almost 200 years.

    Yeah there is no way for the Little Lamplighters to even be able to survive this long on a diet like that.

    "Megaton makes a bit more sense than LL. The reasoning to build a town around a bomb is due to a large majority of the settlers being "Children of Atom." They are weird as hell, but I would assume that Simms (and whoever else settled there first) thought it to be better to settle with these crazies than try without them. It would seem that the original settlers tried to gain entry to Vault 101, but according to the wiki they stayed within the megaton crater to avoid massive dust storms that were a problem at the time. The "town" then became a large trade stop for settlers and wastelanders heading east to D.C."

    Alright, two problems with this. If they decided to settle in that crater because it protects them from massive dust storms, then why don't they just use Springvales houses as shelter or the school as a shelter for them? Why didn't they just use Super Duper Mart which is big enough for them to settle in and use it as shelter? It's much more safer than being near an active Atomic Warhead.

    "With Lucas Simms I typically talk to him with my vault suit still on. He might assume that you have some technical knowledge from being a vault dweller. He could just be naive, but it seems that no one has really ever offered to try and disarm it."

    I'm honestly wondering how could someone like Lucas Simms be able to trust strangers that easily and let them wander in Megaton and fiddle around with an active Atomic Bomb which could kill them all. It also bothers me how no one in Megaton including Moira even thought of disabling the bomb just in case some stranger walks in and actually manages to detonate it.

    "He might also believe that attempting to disarm it will not accidentally detonate it, seeing that Burke HAS to give you a pulse charge to detonate it this may be true."

    So he lets a stranger from a vault who could've insulted him, decided to let him go interact with an Atomic Bomb anyways. For all Simms could've known the Lone Wanderer or anyone could actually have access to a pulse charge or something similar and actually manage to detonate it. It's stuff like this that made me wondered how Lucas Simms is even in charge in the first place.

    "Vault 87 has a terminal that talks about the virus. The vault was run by military scientists from the start and was supposed to perform Evolutionary Experimentation for potential "Fixes" after a nuclear war."

    How the government let a company like Vault Tec gain access to an important, dangerous, and top secret thing like FEV? Also why doesn't the scientists over at Mariposa decide to do the Evolutionary Experimentation at Mariposa Military Base? Where all the FEV research is transferred to.

    "Eden is wanting to do the same thing that President Richardson wanted to do in Fallout 2 (It is stated that Eden is a personality generated by a ZAX computer. He believe that non-pure people (people who have been exposed to radiation) are a threat to the future and that using the FEV virus will wipe them out."

    Why poison the water if no one in the Capital Wasteland is going to drink it? People seem to have purifiers that purifies the water so that could make poisoning the water with FEV pointless also it doesn't help that it seems not many people even have or need water. Sooo....why poison it in a water crisis instead of taking them out guns blazing instead?

    "As for a Lyon's goes... He was originally going along with the "Collect tech" plan, but realizing the threat that the super mutants were to both his organization and the locals that they needed to be stopped. There can also be assumptions made that they have knowledge of FEV being near D.C., because of super mutants, and that is something they REALLY need to stop."

    That's like an incredible waste of soldiers and troops if you keep on doing this for like 20 years. Sending troops after troops deep into the ruins of D.C to kill super mutants without trying to figure out where their coming from. By doing this Lyons effectively caused the mutant population to grow since defenseless settlements are being raided by Mutants and settlers are taken captives and turned into more mutants.

    "The story goes further to explain the schism of the east coast BoS and why Lyons does what he does. Brotherhood knights, paladins, ect are going to explore the ruins of DC eventually, not much different when they are going through killing mutants. Also the super mutants seem to be concentrated in D.C. itself, and he doesn't seem to know that vault 87 is the cause."

    So if they had knowledge of FEV being near D.C, why not send scouts or troops around the ruins of the city to try and trace where the mutants could be coming from? Lyons effectively wasted his resources on trying to cleanse the ruins of D.C of super mutants instead of sending his men to go out and find signs of mutants from other sources not counting D.C itself.

    "The "What do they eat" seems like a nitpicking complain to me but here we go...
    Megaton has a large population of giant ants to the northeast that they kill and eat as well as mole rats. We see this outside of the gate, as well as a large amount of any meat being traded at Moira's store. Megaton is also one of the most frequented trade hubs outside of D.C. so it is likely they have food brought to them in exchange for scavenged materials. "

    So a community like Megaton relies on trading and hunting instead of growing their own food which is probably more efficient than trading or hunting constantly to feed an entire town? They've done this shtick for almost 200 years or so and never needed farms or crops to grow and produce more food?

    "Rivet City has a lot of trade just like Megaton, but you can assume they get a good amount of meat from the nearby mirelurks that not only live IN the ship, but all around it. You also see Doctor Li and her subordinates cultivating vegetables in their lab."

    Yeah and do you know they can only grow a limited amount of crops and could only feed a few people, right? So people at Rivet City have relied on hunting and trading for almost 200 years for the most part of getting any food.

    "Paradise falls and Tenpenny tower probably hunt as well as attack smaller settlements for food."

    Paradise Falls, yes. Tenpenny Tower, I highly doubt it.

    "The Citadel's BoS scavenge as well as most likely hunt Mirelurk in the nearby Sewers. The Citadel is also near water where other irradiated monsters could dwell and be hunted. Seeing the Moira has a food purifier, it could be assume the BoS would as well."

    Alright, I see your basing a lot of these on baseless assumptions with little to no evidence or anything supporting it.

    "As far as the lack of growth, that could be due to the presence of the Enclave"

    What could the Enclave be doing that's helping prevent people rebuild?

    "as well as large amount of Mutants infesting D.C. and the west part of the map."

    Yeah threats like Super Mutants, Slavers, Raider,s and so much more that's overrunning D.C makes me wonder why people won't pack up and leave and find a better place to live.

    "There also could have been different circumstances in D.C. seeing that it was the United State's capital. It's more likely it got hit my several times more nukes than the Mojave or most of California (Although i'll admit the L.A. "boneyard" would have been hit hard, but it was overrun by raiders in fallout 1 (I think it was fallout 1, might have been 2.)"

    If D.C got hit hard the most, which I do agree with, then that leaves one question.

    Why isn't D.C a crater? Why are there still building's like the Washington Monument, the White House, and so much more buildings still standing? Why is there anything in the D.C area? At least with New Vegas we got an explanation that House had a missile defense system that shot most of missiles down. Which is how Vegas remained mostly intact.


    Lone Wolf:

    I never understood this whole talk of "urr... FO3's world design is so much better than New Vegas!!!". I simply don't get it. Fallout 3 map was almost like a huge area divided into sections, it was very disconnected, and all the locations felt meaningless. The open world was beautiful though, and the atmosphere was beyond amazing, but that's it. After 200 yrs of the bombs drop, humanity should've been resconstructing themselves, not dragging themselves through the ashes. New Vegas felt much more believeable and realistic, the game was also more engaging to me as it didn't had that gray-green filter, it was just way more colorful. I also felt more determined to discover new areas, without knowing what I would find, maybe it would be a Legion invaded location like Nipton? Or a peaceful one like Novac? Or a NCR camp like Camp Golf? Or hell, even Vault 11, which in my opinion has one of the best storytelling I've ever seen! All the areas were connected and dependable to each other, I felt it was way better and realistic. I was much more engaged by exploring New Vegas than D.C, that's for sure.


    Metallica:

    @Lone Wolf, I think that Fallout 3's world is better than Fallout New Vegas's, but not by a large margin. I love Fallout New Vegas, i've just been defending Fo3 as being a good game.


    Lewd Ness:

    I see you deleted your response.

    "I think that Fallout 3's world is better than Fallout New Vegas's, but not by a large margin. I love Fallout New Vegas, i've just been defending Fo3 as being a good game"

    It's a mediocre game with terrible writing by Emil Plagiarism.

    All you've been doing so far is providing extremely far fetched reasoning and head cannoning in order to justify Fallout 3's objectively bad writing and how the world doesn't even make any sense.


    Metallica:

    I proved your dumb arguments completely wrong while citing information from in-game and on the wiki. My comment is not missing, I deleted and resubmitted it in two different messages.

    Read through it and realize you are wrong.


    Lewd Ness:

    "I proved your dumb arguments completely wrong while citing information from in-game and on the wiki."

    And I proved how the writting is incredibly stupid and how the worldbuilding doesn't make sense.

    I also proved how this information is also an example of bad and lazy writing.

    My comment is not missing, I deleted and resubmitted it in two different messages."

    I don't see the response. Sooo..

    "Read through it and realize you are wrong."

    I can't since I actually can't see the response.

    Why don't you just admit Fallout 3 has bad writing?

     
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  7. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    Jesus, me too. Simple because is not true.

    Let's see, I start my game in goodspings. Here I have a tutorial for combat and crafting, merchans, a guy that plays caravan, a snowglobe, and a quest where I can decide what faction I wanna join.

    Next I go to Primm. There I encounter the NCR for the first time, a companion, a cassino that I will have the option to gambling in the future, a merchan, a caravan player, one side quest, one non marked quest (Ruby's cassarole) one part of the main quest.

    After Primm, the Mojave Outpost. Again, merchans, caravan, two side quests, a guy with 100% in repair, a future companion, pieces of lore etc.

    And so go on. I always have someone to talk, some item to collect, some quest to do in NV.

    What I DONT HAVE is something or someone to shoot every 20 steps like F3 or F4. And that's how I like my Fallouts.

    But a awesome thing in all Fallouts excepted NV is the random encounter. Obsidian drops the ball in this matter. Maybe because the short time to make the game?
     
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  8. Looks like they were just left out, as they are there but so few it doesn't even count. The hit squads and those two related to Star Bottlecaps and some other.
     
  9. AlphaSlayerZX

    AlphaSlayerZX Deadpan

    253
    Oct 12, 2016
    Alright, he finally resent his two responses to me and here it is.

     
  10. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Hey hey hey hey!

    Don't lump Fallout 3 fans with STALKER.



    Aaaaa Nuuuu! Cheeki breeki!
     
  11. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Valee petooshar!

    But seriously, Fallout 3 has nothing on STALKER to be ever comparable.
     
  12. Charwo

    Charwo Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    310
    Mar 9, 2017
    I got into an arguement with a guy who said, and I quote:

    What existed in OTHER game series is irrelevant. Most people bought and expected FALLOUT 4, not The Elder Scrolls 6: Boston. And viceversa. When I buy a TES game, I don't expect it to have terminators (no less than 5 Terminator games are also among previous Beth games), nor let me drive cars (like some of those other Bethesda games did, the Terminator ones included), nor do I expect piratey adventures in the Carribean (Pirates of the Caribbean is also a previous Beth games.)

    What he's saying in this context is that a game company has no responsibility to build on the work they've done before. I've complained loud and long about the lack of features that were in Fallout 3 and Skyrim, which included horses (they did it for cats, why not horses?) even a ridable Giddyup Buttercup, the dual wielding and kill animations from Skyrim. Things which make sense in Fallout's world. And by the way....gen 3 synths are basically fleshier terminators, but that's the least of the issues.

    And the notion that other games have done literally everything better than Fallout 4, years before? Irrelevant.
     
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  13. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Yer fond of me Lobster!

    Oct 26, 2016
    Two gems I remember in particular.

    First gem:

    The underlined bit made me spit my coffee back into the cup when I read it because of how profoundly stupid it was.

    The user Thorlaserpunch did a pretty good job shitting on his arguments, though. Thor's response (post #32):

    https://community.bethesda.net/thread/7615?start=30&tstart=0

    Second Gem: Same guy as above. There was a thread about prostitution in Fallout 4 and lack thereof, and this guy basically posted some off-topic dribble about how there were sexual themes and prostitution, and how Cait implying she was used as a sex-slave in her past was beyond anything Bethesda had done in the past.

    Just pure delusion.
     
  14. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    ^From that link
    The mental gymnastics some people forcefully impose upon themselves to made Bethesda's design decision less worse is amusing... and pathetic. 'Dumbing down' is basically a crude, more rude version of saying 'streamlining' (or rather, bad ones) and he's stating it in that same sentences.
     
  15. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    Fun thread. I like this part

    :D
     
  16. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    They know it's crap but tell themselves it's good. Doublethink in action.
     
  17. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Holy fuck my brain..... ugh I can't handle that level of Bethestardness.
    I just can't understand that kind of mindset. Remember Gopher's most recent video on how the Dumbing Down of Fallout 4 was just a 'myth'? Same thing.

    When the argument had to go down to how a former RPG franchise is turned into something other than what it was before, you know you only allow mediocrity and nothing else. See: Teen Titans GO and the likes of those abominable atrocities.
     
  18. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Yer fond of me Lobster!

    Oct 26, 2016
    Gopher probably believes with full conviction that they dumbed down the game. He's just being tact about it as to not hurt his subscriber base which he's built up around Bethesda games.
     
  19. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    Agree. He even mentioned something like that in his F4 review.
     
  20. Most big names back out on strong opinions on the franchises they are based around; a lot of "I replayed it and NOW I'm understanding it". SImilar happened with Dark Souls channels and DS3.
    Perfectly understandable, anyway. You don't want to lose your fans for an opninion you can keep to yourself.