Why do people think Fallout 3 was actually good?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by KingArthur, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    74
    Nov 21, 2020
    the main problem about your choice being wiped away was because of broken steel DLC allowing you to play infinitely longer then anticipated. A lot of your choices do matter but only to the player really they don't really matter in the game world besides maybe disarming the Atom bomb in megaton or blowing it up or enslaving people for money which seem to effect the game world in a few ways. but not enough.

    i didn't really have a problem with the mutants in fallout 3, sure they aren't as developed as the west coast mutants but that's kind of the point. their dumb-dumbs gen 2 super mutants or whatever made/bred in a vault. Though somehow they have the concept to "make more" rather then being a dying breed which i thought would of been better but oh well.

    the Fatman? It's just a weapon in the game to fight behemoths with. i don't see a problem here.

    You can still enjoy the game, exploration, weapons, etc.

    I feel like the whole no iron sights debate is silly, your a kid who just left the vault so you wouldn't know how to properly use a weapons that are heavier then a bb gun. so shooting will of course be far more difficult.

    "it's a fucking shooter"

    well yeah so is new vegas. their all shooters in one way or another. doesn't mean their not RPGs though.
     
  2. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Here's the thing: a unique setting in an established universe necessarily means, to my mind anyway, that you should be exploring a new area, or pointing out what makes this unique, or otherwise make the content that's reused, reused in a way that implies progression of the setting.

    Fallout 1, 2, the unreleased Van Buren, and New Vegas understand this. While each takes place in a unique setting, they still reuse the core things from the base game, AND make sure that the historical progression of the setting feels realistic.

    Fallout 1 as a setting is entirely unique, since it's designed to be an introduction to the universe. The Brotherhood of Steel is a unique group that shows up around Lost Hills, the Ghouls are the unique mutants from Necropolis, the entire creation, purpose and ideology of the Supermutants is a core part of the game's story.

    By the time you get to Fallout 2, it takes place in Northern California, which is a new setting to the SoCal based Fallout 1, while still having heavily overlap in the southern parts of the map. This is weaved in to the way the game is designed: It takes until the 6th town your average player will visit to see Ghouls for the first time, and other features from Fallout 1 are used sparingly:

    The Brotherhood of Steel have a minor presence mostly comprised of outposts in major cities, where they're subtly nudging you on your way. There is one main reocurring Brotherhood character who shows up in a total of 3 locations. This is a very small-scale northern expedition, by a group driven to rumours of Enclave presence, this isn't a whole new chapter or invasion force just for this area. Vault City is the game's new Vault, but even then it's entirely written to be a unique town/faction in the game's world.

    By the time you've seen your first Ghouls, you've effectively got 90% completely original content, with a whole new species of underground dwelling mutants terrorising a town, getting involved in gang-wars, seeing Northern California's slave-trading economy up close, ect., most references to the original game are portrayed through this lens of being far away from where it originally took place: The Vault Dweller is mostly a mythological figure this far north, people remember seeing vast hordes of Green-skinned Giants migrating across the wasteland decades ago, but have no idea what any of it means.

    Moreover, when you do see things from the previous game, their presence is a direct result from their presence in the previous games: The Ghouls in Fallout 2 are a result from the "Great Migration" from Necropolis, where after the Mutants destroyed the city in the first game, they've been forced to flee and settle down across the wastes. FEV, a core part of the Enclave's plans, is directly derived from Mariposa, which they had to excevate using Slave Labour due to it's destruction by the Vault Dweller, and this excavation creates Second Gen Supermutants. First Gen Supermutants are now living in towns and cities, trying to get by with humans and use their unique abilities for the better, since after the Master's death, they are no longer the big bads, but rather the remnants of an army that no longer exists.

    Van Buren was going to have a similar attitude: Almost all of the game's content would be unique never before seen locations, ideas and groups of survivors. The parts that were repeats, were again, part of a progression from the events of the first 2: The Brotherhood were almost wiped out in a war against the NCR over the technology from the Enclave, and a small faction of extreme loyalists, the Circle of Steel, has gone East to make preperations for a recapturing, Ghouls play an incredibly minor role, and all of the game's Ghouls come from the Reservation, a facility known for producing "Born Ghouls", who were born as the result of Ghoul childbirth. In dealing with the Reservation, which effectively serves as a Theocratic Dictatorship with a slave-economy, you'd have to take in to account the fact that in previous games Ghouls were infertile, and would likely be the last generation of their kind to ever live. The inclusion of Ghouls in the game at all was going to be justified through a moral choice about the very existence of Ghouls in the Wasteland.

    Every core theme that makes Fallout what it is, is important BECAUSE it's intentional and well thought-out. When the game includes features from the old games like Ghouls, Supermutants, the Brotherhood of Steel, you have to ask why they're there. And not just "The lore said this"

    Does it feel like a natural progression, whereby the events of the previous games directly made the faction who they are today?, Does it feel like they're raising new and interesting questions about the nature of these things?

    You can have as many new sources of Supermutants as you want for every single game that comes out, but what makes a Supermutant a Supermutant is the sense of historicity. Supermutants exist in a historical context, and each new iteration of them should feel like a progression of the last: How are the Supermutants doing since the events of the previous games?, What has changed since the world has changed around them? If there's no history to Supermutants, why bother making them Supermutants at all? All they become are another enemy, that's sole similarity with Supermutants is the name and size.

    Fallout shouldn't just be a checklist of tropes like "Ghouls, Supermutants, Raiders, Brotherhood". Each of these things should have some purpose, and some real feeling reason as to why they're there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
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  3. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    Yes, fucking yes. That's what they should have done. Bethesda could have made their own new IP and still made a ton of money because they were riding high on Morrowind and Oblivion's successes.

    The only reason they bought Fallout was because they would have most of the work done. Just rehash the first two games and move on. It wasn't because of brand recognition due to the first two games not selling very well. Sure they were praised by a lot of people, but they didn't sell millions upon millions of copies like some other RPGs did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  4. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    For me, part of the joy of Fallout 3 is that it introduces all the old concepts to a new generation of console gamers who never played Fallout 1 and 2.
     
  5. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Except it literally doesn't.

    Fallout 3 never introduced new players to Supermutants. It never introduced them to the ideology that created them, the historical reasons they exist, or the ways in which the progression of the timeline has affected them.

    None of the concepts from 1 and 2 exist in Fallout 3, because the things that aesthetically resemble them, are so far divided from what they actually are, that they're basically not the same thing.
     
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  6. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    Yeah, the Enclave, BoS, Super Mutants and other stuff that was put nonsensically in Fallout 3 from the first two games only have their names in common with their versions in Fallout 1 and 2. They might as well be entirely different things in the end given how little they resemble the originals.
     
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  7. KingArthur

    KingArthur Hackin and Whackin and Smackin [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    It was a joke, as I told Millim. This thread was a parody lol
     
  8. ResetRPG

    ResetRPG Hail Damn State

    337
    Dec 16, 2018
    Am I stupid or was this post a mockery of the glorious Chunglord thread back in April?
     
  9. KingArthur

    KingArthur Hackin and Whackin and Smackin [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    This was a mockery, and I even said it in the post tags.

    What that tells me is that everyone involved in this thread was stupid in some way or another, including myself.
     
  10. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
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  11. Aurelius Of Phoenix

    Aurelius Of Phoenix Psued.

    Mar 9, 2018
    To be honest all of your posts come off with a shade of self-hate and are really long so I rarely read them and if I deign to comment on them at all it's always in derision of you in some subtle (and brilliant) way.

     
  12. KingArthur

    KingArthur Hackin and Whackin and Smackin [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    Ah, brilliant. That’s what we call it now, eh?
     
  13. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
    Szchitsophrenic maybe, or however that word is spelled.
     
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  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I feel like fans have lionized:

    "Radioactive mutants will survive better than humanity in the Wasteland and when mind-controlled by me, will be a superior peaceful race"

    into a more coherent less-comic book monster plot than it is.

    Especially since the Master's philosophy requires the genocide of humanity that is already rebuilding.
     
  15. KingArthur

    KingArthur Hackin and Whackin and Smackin [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    Schizophrenic, Morgan. You put the z in the wrong place lol.
     
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  16. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
    Fuck typing and spelling. They don't go together for me.
     
  17. Aurelius Of Phoenix

    Aurelius Of Phoenix Psued.

    Mar 9, 2018
    Pretty sure Herbert Daring Dashwood is based off of Flashman (a pulp character):

     
  18. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Trying not to word this in a snarky way, but where did I say the words "Fallout should not have comic book monsters as villains"

    You can poke holes in the ideology of the Master all you like, but it's a coherent ideology. Supermutants aren't orcs, they're creatures with a past and their own culture and ideas.

    That's one hell of a grade above "Time to eat your flesh, raar gore bags, killing good, talking bad" that Bethesda has.

    Now maybe this is a subjective viewpoint, but I tend to have a lot of distaste for entire species in games being portrayed as muh mindless savages. I dislike Orcs in d&d, Centaurs in WOW, ect., as a result. There's two reasons for this

    1. I think it's partially lazy design to treat the antagonists of a game as though they're inherently prone to violence as opposed to being the result of social and cultural conditions.

    2. I think it's often used as a justification for allowing the player to act like a Sandbox Imperialist. World of Warcraft for instance, is entirely dependent on having entire groups of people you're not meant to feel remorse for violently relocating, it's part of the flow of the game.

    The whole point of Fallout is that it's a world littered with Human concerns. Granted some of those humans may now be 10 foot tall and green, some may be scarred radiation creatures with long lives, but they're still people. Modoc has issues with Ghost Town, not because it's filled with underground mutants, but because they have conflicting material needs with that commuity of underground mutants.

    People don't go around sticking gore bags up and shooting people for no reason. The sole reason that's the case is because Fallout 3 and 4 are more interested in giving players corridors full of enemies than anything else. You're not supposed to feel remorse when you mercilessly slaughter people in Vault 87, the game's written in such a way that the question of whether or not you're murdering people is never addressed nor adknowledged.
     
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  19. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Yeah I don't get the point, The Master and the Unity were absolutely a pulp comic book premise but they were a damn good one. They were a cohesive, well written villain group with a specific background and villainous ideology connected to them. Broken Hills, God/Dog, Black Mountain/Jacobstown shows exactly how that kind of baggage makes them interesting. Or even if you don't agree interesting, it gives them some character traits beyond their physical design as a monster.

    3's Mutants were literally just the design on brainless mobs in the world.
     
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  20. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    The Super Mutants in Fallout 3 might as well be an entirely different mutant species given that they have literally nothing do with The Master and his Super Mutants, except maybe that they were also made with FEV.

    The fact is that the Super Mutants in 3 are not introducing new players to the actual Super Mutants that were in the first two games, because they are entirely separate entities. So new fans don't learn anything new, except that Super Mutants exist and that they are created by FEV.

    Was it so fucking hard to make the Super Mutants in 3 be like the ones in 1 and 2? Did Bethesda really need to make them into dumb brutes? They could still be enemies for the player to shoot at, because they kind of are as well in 1 and 2, and still have depth. You know, like how they are in 1 and 2? There was no logical reason to make them into bloodthristy morons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021