Anyone noticed Legion supporters usually spell Caesar wrong?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Sicknessoverload, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    No Napoleon lost because the seventh coalition was almost all of Europe and he got fucked up. Without Caesar, and with no heir there's a giant power vacuum that can't be filled. I
     
  2. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    See above post. The only useful source for that theory (which is to say someone who ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS THE LEGION) is Graham, who agrees with Marcus. But I think it’s also important to remember that Graham turned away from the Legion for obvious reasons, so like, say Ernst Hanfstaengl, he’s not gonna have the best words to say about his former boss.

    EDIT:
    you are aware that Waterloo wasn’t an easy blowout for the Coalition, right? That Napoleon almost won? And how does a power vacuum = loss, rather than regime change? Why wouldn’t there be a line of succession given Caesar’s intelligence? None of that makes any sense.
     
  3. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    He would have lost no matter what and Lanius can't lead the Legion and it's possible he gets assassinated by some would be Caesar. By then I don't think the Legion could go on the offensive anymore and the newly conquered tribes begin to revolt.
     
  4. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    Lanius can’t? Why? Because everyone outside the Legion says it will collapse? Listen to Lanius speak; he’s clearly educated in some capacity. That’s the problem with speculation of this sort; we both could be right because too much about the Legion was left to lore and imagination.
     
  5. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    You're right, it can go either way. I feel like too many people underestimate the Legion. If Caesar wins the battle for Hoover Dam then the NCR will collapse.
     
  6. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    I can see that, but I also see a lot of scenarios in which the Legion falls apart too. The trouble is whether the Legion splinters, and how.
     
  7. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    How do you think the Legion would fall?
     
  8. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    I can see a lot of ways in which the Legion either dissolves due to infighting or someone thinking they can rule better than the current Caesar and completely fucking it up.

    There’s also the entirely possible situation of the NCR mending the fences with, say, the WC BoS, and managing to pursue the Legion should they win the second battle of the dam.
     
  9. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    I can't see someone assassinating Caesar and even with a BoS-NCR alliance they could hurt them but not enough to turn the tide I think.
     
  10. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    Maybe, but in the end who knows. I suppose a fractal infighting Legion would be a collapsing Legion, but at that point it’s just semantics (inb4 Morgan comes back and thinks she’s trapping me lol).
     
  11. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    Lol, why are both of our organizations easy to collapse?
     
  12. Apollyon

    Apollyon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    117
    Apr 29, 2017
    There is no need for much speculation here.

    Caesar's death can happen in both Legion and non-Legion playthroughs, and in neither does the game provide even a hint at a crisis within the Legion.

    Because people dislike the Legion, they are eager to accept anything negative that in-game characters will say about it, even if it is not supported by actual in-game events. Confirmation bias, in short.

    I'll stop derailing this lovely Legion-bashing thread now.
     
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  13. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    We hear nothing of the Legion beyond the occupation of the Mojave in their ending, the conquest of NCR is the real test. Personally I think Ulysses is the best source of information on the Legion because he was an inner-circle diehard with decades of experience, now left with no reason to mindlessly support them. I think Lanius might be able to carry the Legion through a siege of NCR, but I ultimately think that Ulysses is right that even Caesar would have problems holding everything together once they reach the pacific. The Legion is so obviously momentum driven to me that when they run out of their "eternal enemy" I really don't think the political synthesis portion is going to happen, I think the Legion will just keep finding things to kill, including eachother. The failure of that project would be quicker under Lanius than Caesar, but I am farily certain it would occur under both.

    You can ultimately argue that the stewing soup of the collapsed Legion and NCR would create some greater society, but the amount of bloodshed and human suffering to reach that is too much to warrant it IMO
     
  14. Apollyon

    Apollyon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    117
    Apr 29, 2017
    Well, F:NV is about Vegas and the Mojave. What happens beyond that is difficult to say. I personally don't think the Legion nor the NCR have the ability to achieve a decisive victory beyond the Mojave, at least in the short-term. And I think Lanius would be more susceptible to the reality of this situation than Caesar is.
     
  15. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    Yeah I definitely think NCR runs out of gas by the time time they start moving boots over into Arizona and Utah. I actually think Van Buren is somewhat of an insight into what post-NCR victory looks like, since in VB they've got their fingers in areas around the Four Corners but they're hugely overextended with failures like Burham Springs, Fort Abandon and the Denver Salvagers.
     
  16. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  17. Baka

    Baka The village Idiot

    10
    Dec 30, 2020
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet in the thread but the NCR makes use of a sharecropping system in order to feed its ever expanding population. If you have such a moral aversion to the slavery of the Legion then you need to hold the NCR in the same regard. Annexing formerly independent lands and forcing inhabitants to work land they once owned for a big cut of the yield isn't exactly ethical. The NCR is by its nature an expansionist empire, that holds the philosophy 'might makes right' as much as the legion does.

    The nature of the NCRs expansion, in my view will only lead to balkanisation.
     
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  18. KingArthur

    KingArthur Johnny K deserved better

    Jun 25, 2018
    I honestly didn’t think of that @Baka. Good point.
     
  19. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    241
    Dec 28, 2020
    I completely agree with you, I'm of the Mojave, I don't side with the NCR. Once the Legion takes Hoover Dam and starts making it way towards California the NCR economy will collapse and then the newly annexed territories will revolt and start insurrections. As for sharecropping and agressive annexation, I'd rather have that over Legion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
  20. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    863
    Aug 9, 2017

    Don't forget the taxes!!!

    What many NCR supporters miss is that Legion slaves don't have to pay taxes as opposed to supposedly "free" NCR citizens.

    Being supplied with fresh water, fertilizers and tools and then having to pay for them with a cut of your yield is exactly the same as being strapped with a bomb collar.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2