Censorship? There is no censorship!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by cronicler, Nov 29, 2014.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well, I can only talk about the things how I see them, I never had issues with the mods, and I sure had some heated up discussions with Sander and Tags before. And yes, I am biased, because I consider them both "friends", as far as internet-forum-stuff goes, Orderite shit and all that nasty stuff. Looks like our plan to take over NMA trough the secret Order finally bears some fruits! Take that, Solar!

    But to be more serious, like I said. Don't post bullshit. And you're save. Hell DB was allowed to troll around for YEARS (!) in this. The Larry Flynt of internet-trolls. You may call it brownnosing, but I call it, beeing polite.

    By the way, even if they would delete a post they don't like here, it might not be awesome, but as far as I remember a forum is not a democracy either. I don't understand, I seriously don't, how people can agree to forum rules and still complain about how someone somewhere is violating their rights. What rights exactly? Was Sander holding a gun to your head forcing you to register? Or was Tagz threatening you with furry porn? Or ... maybe bribing you with it?

    I am sorry if you feel that certain opinions get suppressed here or something like that. But, then I have to say, man up, and accept it. A forum is not about free speech. It is about the agenda of the forum/website owners and in some sense about the admins/moderators, I am sorry to say it that way, but yeah you have to pay attention to their opinions, at least a little. Or will you complain the same way when the moderates start to swing the ban hammer with Fallout 4 and all the Bethesda drones making their way in here? Aren't we censoring their opinion as well? Solar please ...

    Just be happy that NMA is not your typical vidgy-game-fan-site, if you think there are better places, be my guest. Try to discuss the same topics on the official Bethesda or Diablo 3 forums which are owned by the respective companies and come back talking about censorship. No clue why some people think they are entitled to rights when they browse through the internet and into some forum. But from what I can tell NMA is one of the better moderated forums. Thankfully there are also not 10 000 active users either posting one topic after another every time ...

    I mean in most other forums they don't even allow topics like this one, where you discuss the disappearance of previous topics and/or posts. At least they don't delete posts and topics here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  2. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    well, keep in mind the whole "five guys" and zoepost was pretty much ignored everywhere, even reddit and 4chan, UNTIL mods started locking and deleting posts. that made people stick their heads up going huh? whats going on here!

    its called the streisand effect. for a very good reason.

    if the previous thread was getting too unwieldy, what you could have done was split the most recent 5-10 pages, and then vat the rest. much smaller thread without nuking the whole thing.
     
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  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    yeah you're right, I really had the feeling that we all have been close to a breaktrough after nearly 70 pages of back-and-forth, ...

    If it is so important to continue the discussion, why not open a new topic? Just saying.
     
  4. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    I had that outlook for 80 pages, but I was merely upset at the growing hostile sentiment, and not on merely one side.

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  5. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Yes, let the sanctity of the prestigious NMA be not violated by frivolous posts from the hoi-polloi. If we're not vigilant, this whole place may be overrun by fruitless posts. I'm going to organize a campaign to create new, more constructive and erudite posts. Right after I post in the "Rate My Avatar" thread. BRB.
    :monocle:
     
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  6. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I dunno if the hostility was actually "growing" so much as becoming "more evenly distributed". If you think about it, much like the controversy itself, the thread was a muddy confusion of righteous outrage mixed in with elements of infantile outrage mixed in with immature outrage mixed in with laudable but misguided attempts at civility mixed in with justified outrage at all the outrage and immaturity mixed in with other forms of outrage. Some people were trying to conduct the conversation they felt was important, and some people were just prodding it with a proverbial stick made of trolling and jokes and generating angst and strife. I'd say all that hostility was simply starting to "bleed in", if anything. That's what I was talking about when I was saying it's best just to disregard and ignore, to write off, because focusing too strongly on a particular element, whether it's the trolls, or the stubborn antithesis to your point, or what have you, it simply begins to take its toll on you if you never take time to distance yourself.
     
  7. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  8. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    well, lets be honest. its not as if either "side" was ever going to make a post so full of insight and so well worded that it shined the spotlight on the core of the human condition within the scope of this issue that everyone's heads exploded ( figuratively or literally ) and the other side wept in shame and cried out "i give up, you are right, how could i have been so wrong! forgive us!"

    it was a fun discussion while it lasted though.
     
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  9. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    But there was an abundance of the former half, which I think is the most important aspect of discourse. "I give up" is trivial next to the weight of the facts and the importance of adhering to them. At least that's how I see it.
     
  10. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    You guys DO realize that there would never have been a consensus, right? There will never, ever, (evereverever), ever, be a moment where groups of opposite ideology will agree. There is never a day when all socialists of the world go "wait a second, you said kill all jews? I thought you said kill all you's! I was totally offended. But jews, totally!"
    Never will a right-wing extremist suddenly go "Share wealth, and defend the weak? Even the ugly? You make a point! The ugly are so underrepresented, and noone will stand up for them! That does it. From now on - I will defend all those with noone to defend them. And I will share my wealth through solid taxes."

    How can we know this moment will never happen?
    Look around.
    It'll never happen.

    NOW
    Discussions are still important: They serve to offer viewpoints to all the people "on the fence".
    So, I actually do like these moss-grown forum relic threads, long-ass debates that go on for hundreds of pages. I used to post in the Live Leak forum for a while, and it had tons of threads like that, like liberalz vs conservatives. Can you imagine the odds of a half-way-meet consensus in such a thread?

    But it has a certain value in itself, that both sides can showcase their viewpoints, not to convince each others, but to affect onlookers.
     
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  11. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Go back to the Codex you bastard. :wink:

    Actually it is a shame that this wasteland of 50 or so active posters doesn't have the one thread that was actually sparking active conversation...even if it was mostly a gaggle fuck. Can't change it now though. The die is cast. NMA is dead. Long live the Order.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
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  12. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    But it happens all the time. It's not relatively common, but it isn't uncommon overall. Hell, I remember a funny documentary (Or was it a 60 Minutes special? I forget...) about a black man who suddenly decided to attend a Klan meeting to see what it was all about, and he ended up getting very well received over years. He even became great friends with one of the Klan's big leaders, who would say to a large crowd "I respect this man (the black guy) more than any of you white niggers!" in defense of his friend! A black man becoming friends with KKK members, and the KKK members in turn defending their black friend against other racist white people. Yes, that's one hell of an unusual instance, but it DOES happen!

    People on opposing sides reach compromises all the time. That's why those who refuse to do so are so derogatorily labeled things as "closed minded" and "stubborn", because they set a bad example of conducting discussion. Breaking down barriers and reaching breakthroughs happens, and it should be the pursuit at every opportunity. Just because the vast majority of instances ends in stalemates shouldn't deter us from seeking out the ideal.
     
  13. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    A lot of people ARE close minded and stubborn tho. Look at the vast, mind-boggling majority. The ocean of people rarely counted, when making exceptions :D
    You are right that it does happen tho, I might have exaggerated a bit with my "never evereverever ever ever EVER!" :'D

    In fact, just today I managed to reach through to a far-right-winger, and I really cherish those moments - they are however exceedingly rare.
     
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  14. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    It's always like this between Fallout releases. People have proclaimed the death NMA countless times before and yet we're still here, 17 years and counting.
     
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  15. Buxbaum666

    Buxbaum666 Heterostructured Nanorod oTO Orderite

    Dec 5, 2003
    God, so much highly important internet drama. So many hours spent improving... something.

     
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  16. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
     
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  17. cronicler

    cronicler Lurksalot

    478
    May 31, 2006
    Bux; Where is your avatar from? It reminds me of something but my 5.25 storage is refusing to respond to search queries :D.
     
  18. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    I wanted to say something in relation to the discussion on sexism in the shitcanned thread:

    I had at one point posted this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

    I was only having a back and forth with sander at the time, but rather than refute any of the points made in it, somehow it can be discarded because the guy saying it is right-wing, apparently.

    Since social justice rhetoric so often defaults to ad hominem arguments when confronted with a direct refutation, for me the debate is over. The judge is out. It's done for.

    On the subject of gamergate:



    It's funny how people still claim that gamergate, a consumer revolt that literally accepts anyone, is bigoted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
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  19. Gnarles Bronson

    Gnarles Bronson regular mutant

    373
    Oct 30, 2011
    Watching this makes me wish that I knew more about GG, but I know in the end it would just make me angry so I'm still avoiding it after all this time.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  20. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    You're better off that way.

    Again on the subject of gamergate:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate/Evidence

    An 'arbitration case' was started on wikipedia, to challenge the conduct of the admins of the gamergate controversy wikipedia article, which has been in question since it's inception, and has had it's main admin forcably put on leave from being the head admin on the article.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014