Historical politicians thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Antiwarprofallout

    Antiwarprofallout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jun 13, 2016
    So? They didn't break the law, they made the law

    So why use laws as a moral guide? The US government's law is essentially "We can do what we want, and you can't do anything about it.", it's really an awful way to guide your morality. Use something that is applied universally, not a pick and choose set of guidelines that favors tyrants.
     
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  2. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Exactly, the law system is a shitty example of morality. Look at the laws in the bible for God's sake! It's a rich mans dream, he can commit robbery and other crimes and just pay them off, while others get stoned to death.
     
  3. comscar

    comscar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    110
    Jul 8, 2009
    Where did anyone say they favor genocides and world wars?

    I do not understand your comparison regarding free speech to yelling in a mall. Under what context would someone yell in a mall for "free speech"? It makes no sense...
     
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  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    He probably means that a mall is a private location with their own set rules. Probably a bad example... much better example would be if I invited someone into my home, and they begun speeching freely in a direction that disgusts me - in my home.
    I have every right in the world to ban them from my home, and it will have nothing to do with "free speech" (although many internet-raised children deny this to be true, and genuinely believe they have the right to be offensive in a private forum, and get away with it, for then to get completely stunned out of their minds when they are banned, and nobody arrests the banhammers for violating "freedom of speech")

    What it boils down to is
    this forum has rules against racism.

    So, no, speech is not free here, nor should it be.
     
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  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What do you mean? If you're kinda defending Hitler, his decisions and ideology and also dennying the Hollocaust, you most probably agree with him one way or another.
     
  6. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Have you seen the footage of Hitler recieving visitors up at his little resort in Bavaria was it? He looks absolutely charming! I'm pretty sure he even serves tea in one of the moments, I absolutely remember him taking one of the Goebbels girls on his lap, like a friendly ol' grandpa!
    Those are things Hitler did that I do agree with :V

    Then there is of course his aquarelles, which are - quite honestly - on a "talented noob" level. He actually had talent. All he needed was a bit of guidance, and from what I understand, he was rejected that guidance. I hope that art teacher of his rots in hell
     
  7. mikek17

    mikek17 First time out of the vault

    66
    Jun 22, 2016
    Favorite politicians? Just registered here but I'll try. Some of these people aren't what you'd call politicians nowadays, but whatever.
    Blessed Charles the Great
    Niccolo Machiavelli
    Saint Thomas More
    Justinian the Great
    Louis XIV the Great of France
    Julius Caesar
    Kaiser Heinrich IV
     
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    After the war, Speer however mocked Hitlers skills in architecture, as how Speer said, he made mistakes that not even a first grade student would do. Since if I remember correctly, Hitler personally designed some of the parts in the Berghof. For some reason, they decided to place the restroom and it's large window ontop of the garage. The fumes and vapor of the gasolines constantly got into it during Summer.
     
  9. comscar

    comscar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    110
    Jul 8, 2009
    Where did someone "kinda" defend hitler here? I'm not sure where you are getting all this stuff from. I suppose if someone "supports" Stalin, you support events like Holodomor or Katyn? Or Netanyahu, then I guess you'd support bulldozing and bombing Palestinian homes? I don't understand what what point you are trying to make.
     
  10. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Well, aquarelles and architecture clearly ain't the same thang :0
     
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  11. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Also I forgot Karl Marx! Sure, he isn't a politician but he influenced many others with their views.
     
  12. mikek17

    mikek17 First time out of the vault

    66
    Jun 22, 2016
    I am concerned at the credibility of Marx on economic matters considering his only real "job" came from his writings
     
  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    True, but he did create a powerful idea and force akin to religion.
     
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  14. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I guess I have a "patriotic duty" to look up to some of my country's older, founding politicians, such as Harald Hardråde, and his spontaneous invasion of England "props for trying!"
    and my home town founder Olav Tryggvason, who's statue actually includes the decapitated head of Kark, a servant who betrayed his lord TO Olav. Despite doing Olav's biddings, he wouldn't have none of that thrall backstabbery shit, so he chopped the guys head off "here's your payment!"

    I also like Peter Wessel Tordenskjold, who - despite what Danes will tell you - was Norwegian, not only that, but a real Trønder.
    Yes yes, Norway was in "Denmark-Norway" union, but the dude was born right here in Trondheim.
    Known for his naval prowess against the Swedes, he finally died in a duel.

    Those were hard times. Someone challenges you, and you just gotta go. Or be shamed. OH THE SHAME!
     
  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Seriously you ... Are you kinda dense or something? There is a reason why LOTS of posts got vated in previous political topics where SOMEONE(!) argued that Himmler and Hitler havn't been that bad, and simply missunderstood individuals, and SOMEONE(!) also DENIED the Hollocaust. I and others started to post evidence, like historical data, speches by Himmler and Hitler themself and witnesses of concentration camps. While NOTHING was posted in return. And simply put, no one could, because there is none. There is no evidence out there from a historical point of view, that would even give you a REASON to doubt that Hitler was anything else than a dictator who had no qualms with genocides. Except of course, the only response was, it's all allied propaganda. Oh hell! How convenient for the discussion ...

    There is a big difference if you say, Hey I love Stalin! And everything he did! GO GULAGS GO! Or if you would argue that Stalin was actually a peaceloving individual who just got tricked in doing all those attrocities, and that he actually didn't knew what happend in his name. If you came in here, defending Stalin, I would also demand your evidences. That simple. Stalin was a dictator and murderer, who had no issue with killing thousands, hell millions of people with his politics. There can be no real questions or doubts about that.

    Sure, you might claim that someone like Hitler had NOTHING(!) to do with what happend in WW2. Or that Stalin was a big stupid idiot, who knew nothing of what happend in his nation and was not responsible for most of the killing.
    But you would have to actually prove that. And I mean with real historical data, with the required scientific rigor behind it and actuall examples. Because the OVERWHELMING majority of all historical records, witnesses and evidence we have available today, points to Hitler, his Party and all the people that one way or another supported them, in beeing responsible for what happend to the Jews in Germany and the conquered teritory. Just as how Stalin and his goons have been responsible for the millions of dead people under their rule in the Sovietunion.

    I would be the last one to tell you, that you should stop being a fascist, if you love fascism so dearly. But you also have to accept the fact that people will call you out on it. That they will challange your view on it. That you will have to actually deal with the ugly side of said politic. As we are after all talking about a very autocratic and extreme form of government. And those usually come with a lot of very serious side effects to the population. In the end, fascim also turned against the Germans, when the Gestapo and SS roved trough the land, hanging people simply for expressing doubts about the so called End-Sieg.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
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  16. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    553
    Dec 15, 2015
    It's funny that you actually think that you were the one with the arguments while failing to provide reasonable explanations against any key points I made. Besides, why go on a rant here, just give the guy a link to the vats and at least make an effort not to derail this thread.
     
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    What key points were they?
     
  18. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    The jews were all communists so they had it coming?
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    ...
    You're joking right?

    Course you are.
     
  20. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Let's call it hyperbole.