Impressions thread for positive impressions

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by midshipman01, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. Comrade_Frog

    Comrade_Frog First time out of the vault

    3
    Nov 22, 2008
    I'd like to chip in my 2 pennies. On the note of turn based being only for games created during a time when the technology wasn't around to make good FPS games, I'd like to say that Silent Storm is awesome.
     
  2. Ar1z

    Ar1z First time out of the vault

    63
    Nov 4, 2008
    I had some dislike about SS but Generally i enjoyed it. JA2 is way better than Silent storm IMO.

    On another note... What do you know about C&C FPS? :shock:
    :wink:
     
  3. Roflcore

    Roflcore Mildly Dipped

    581
    Nov 2, 2008
    Well I'm almost done with the mainquest of F3 and suddenly I realize F3 is truely fubar. Fucked up beyond repair. The moddingcommunity did already a great job, but fixing this game appears to be impossible I'm afraid. The entire worldmap needs to be redesigned, including entire towns (I mean real towns) with history, a complete new mainstory and a lot of quests (true quests with storyline, not another "go to x, kill y and/or find z" quests) and a lot of npcs (with some depth)..that sounds like too much for me. Now I'm kinda sad :<
     
  4. Tessera

    Tessera First time out of the vault

    17
    Nov 14, 2008
    You disagree..?

    ...okay...




    It's a broken mesh. I work with faces and meshes all the time. It's simply garbage. Bethesda knew that it was garbage when they released it, too. They just figured that lots of undiscerning fanboys and konsole kiddies would buy it anyway... and then rationalize about it later. It looks like Bethslop has won that gamble.

    But it's still garbage. I have already given up all hope for this game and moved on. I won't waste anymore of my time on it.
     
  5. PsychicToaster

    PsychicToaster First time out of the vault

    7
    Nov 27, 2008
    I think what the story/plot critics are overlooking is that Fallout 2's story followed the most contrived device in writing: The McGuffin.

    For those who don't know, a McGuffin is a completely interchangeable object that really has no bearing on the story other than it motivates the protagonist's search. In Fallout 2, the story would have been identical had the G.E.C.K. been replaced with the code sequence to cause a terraforming satellite to launch a pod at northern California to re-seed it, or a bag of magical beans that grow into an infinite corn field.

    Finding your father and in the process discovering a world dying and in need of water > Finding the Holy Garden of Eden Creation Kit/The One Ring/The Eye of the World and in the process discovering a world with civilization and order restored

    Fallout 2 was a bigger deviation from PA setting than Fallout 3, by far.
     
  6. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    No to mention that the piece between her nose and mouth is too friggin' big.

    It is perfectly normal to have asymmetric faces IRL, 99% of faces are asymmetric, but not as asymmetric as is the case in that FO3 face above. She looks more like a Planet of the Apes mask than an actual human.

    Other faces I've seen are pretty good, though. Like that cute blonde BoS girl, I dunno her name, Lyons or something? I haven't played the game and don't plan on doing so).

    Just saying, that's all.
     
  7. Roflcore

    Roflcore Mildly Dipped

    581
    Nov 2, 2008
    And the water chip could have been a code sequence to restart the mainframe..
    Stop trying to improve F3 by trying to make F1/F2 worse then it was.
     
  8. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    And you really think it made more sense to be chasing water purifier, 200 years after the nuclear war. It would be useless really, when you look at fallout 2. No need for such things, people can drink water, not completely safe, but it wont kill you short term. G.E.C.K was something that made some sense, it was piece of pre-war technology. Pre-war tech had huge impact on life in the wasteland. Land was barren, and hard to farm.

    Oh, and BY YOUR "LOGIC", FALLOUT IS NOT PA. Remember the waterchip ? Remember how you had to fetch it , and in the end of the game, it did matter, it had a meaning in the plot like the G.E.C.K ?
    Waterchip and G.E.C.K enabled your home to survive, and if that has no meaning in the story for you, i really can't see how anything would have a meaning. Waterchip was like the G.E.C.K in Fallout 2, a reason to send the player to the barren wasteland, to see the devastation and suffering of the mankind. To see what war can lead to.


    I think that fallout 3 is not as PA as it should be. Ammo lying around, working generators unmaintained, friendly people while life is hard etc. Also, i hate clear good BoS versus Bad enclave, even when it makes no sense,as Enclave does't really seem that evil. To indirectly qoute: "think more like VC, authoritian yes, but not evil". At least in fallout 3.
    Story would need to be better. Why should i like my father ? He left me , and almost got me killed. "Oh great, thanks a lot daddy"
     
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    While you are right with what you say it still does not excuse quite many of Bethesdas mistakes.

    First and foremost. Only cause you have the IP and licence doesnt mean you have to change the setting in ways that suit you or something you believe is the right view. I am thinking here about the Tolkien stories since his son is in charge about the setting and owns it he is not making new books out of his fathers ideas and sudenly starts to change everything around the setting only to get a broader audience or cause it would fitt "modern times. A few things are good how they are and still could gather big masses and audiences cause of their uniquie style. I just cant believe it when people say that game mechanics like presented in Fallout would be dead. Did people realy gave up on reading? Enjoying plots with twists, meaningfull stories, stories you can shape by your self, like you did in either Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, Planescape (here more then in most other games), hell even in some ways in such hoolywood like games like Baldurs Gate. To say it with other words, did suddenly RPG players today gave up playing RPGs? What happend with the idea to "play" the role and thus get a different story? To have a licence is one thing. To say that you want to contiune the "path" but walk in the opposite direction is another story. But did Bethesda even ever tried to eventualy give Turnbased combat a try and eventualy think about technical solutions and ways to make it more enjoyable. I am thinking about Silent Storm, Jaggend Aliance 2. Quite a lot of improvements could be made here if someone would decide to exhaust the existing hardware to its limits! What Fallout achieved it already achieved that on technologies almost as old like the 486er generation of processing units. One shold imagine what could be done if someone would go with duel core CPUs in the use for NPCs and combat mechanics. NPC reaction and behaviour based in real time on the players actions. Individualy for every NPC and on global scale. Bethesda bought the licence, cause they wanted to make a true sequel faithfull to the past games (their words!) and yet it holds up a lot of dispute around the old communty and even on their own forum.

    You see many people making alteartions to very famous known art like Da Vinci's Mona Lisa, but no one would seriously get the idea to call a Mona Diesel the modern adaption of Da Vincis work

    The second and pretty important thing is that even if Bethesda changed a lot they can not even come up to their own standarts. The standarts of AAA titles. Neither the graphic or the gameplay are new or really "outsanding" in their class. AI, voice acting, animations, graphics, gameplay [it IS twitch gaming and shares a lot in common with a first person shooter of some sort], writting and much more have been done better by games that are either 5 or even 10 years olders. The animations in Fallout 3 are basicaly not better compared to games like Jedi Outcast 2. Same to the voice acting and facial expressions. And by just comparing how the combat feels I have to say that it was done better and more rewarding by Deus Ex and System Schock 2. What is outsanding is the marketing Bethesda always can manage to throw out the hype and commercials around the game. Without those I doubt the game would even be able to win through its mediocrity. It just is not percaivable cause there is no real competition around in that area and I have to agree a lot here when it comes to oppinions people like Vince express about the RPG and their thoughts about a needed change.
     
  10. Darkform

    Darkform First time out of the vault

    76
    Nov 27, 2008
    Vince made me cry. he is right commercial gaming company s are most likely never going to make a good RPG ever again.

    and RT did come before TB.

    I'm about his age at 36 years old my first vedio game system was Intelivision. (that's a name that probably will get most people that like FP RT games saying what was Intelivision?)
     
  11. Corvin

    Corvin It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Nov 17, 2008
    3D made RPGs sell more... a lot more. Saying they're dead is pessimism. Expecting them to not change is being a Luddite.

    So... you have problems with Fallout 3. Work towards better future games... of the future. You love isometric stuff... support Diablo III... you love better story and dialogue... say it everywhere on the net.... demand it... point out to companies that on a Blueray disk you have the space to do a full television series worth of story if you try...

    ...hate and pessimism is of course easier.
     
  12. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Well i find it hard to like bad games, maybe you have a lot easier time liking them.

    Thinking that games will ALWAYS be better in future makes no sense, they seem to become worse and worse.
    And companies ignore people who want better, complex games, because enough gamers are content and satisfied playing simple, relatively easy games with no real storyline.
    You know, the casual crowd. The game industry seems to be currently focusing too much on the casual gamers. 3D doesn't excuse bad design , does it ?
    And what is wrong with valid criticism. If game has flaws and is unsatisfactory, and you paid 50 euros for it, you certainly have the right to criticize the game.
    Also part of the problem is , developers like bethesda ignore valid points, and do nothing to correct their previous mistakes. Look at fallout 3 it still has level scaling, even if it is partial. "Great" design choice there, it worked so well in oblivion.
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Then ask your self would Bethesda or Bioware ever start making a game of the level like Planescape Tourment? We can even go a step further. Would ANY company of the the size from Bethesda, Blizzard or Bioware make a game even as rich like Arcanum, Fallout or Planescape Tourment? Do they even have the needed skill. Fallout 3 is the sign that when it comes to the writting this is more or less the limit and absolute maximum (in my eyes) Bethesda can throw out as company. Though since Emil worked with the Tief series I really expected here a bit more, a lot more. But I guess it just does not fitt to Bethesda principle of how to make games and I guess you either do what they demand from you or you search for a new project. One can notice that a lot of the people that did excelent work in the past games when it comes to the writting are gone and most of them are not involved at such kind of projects like RPGs anymore. So is there any chance for such games to see them happen again in usual gaming buisness? :cry:

    Not with the curent democraphic development commercial gaming industrie is going. It even walks hand in hand with the game journalism. If you even can call most of them journalists in the traditional sense of the word and meaning since most of them lack the sine qua non any professional journalist/correspondent should have. Objectiveness. See how they hyped Mass Effect and now Fallout 3 as "awesome" and "true" RPGs when they are nothing more then watered-down versions of past games ... dialogues with choices and concequences are called "oldschool" approchaes by Bethesda ... hell yes ... did anyone told them that choices and concequences are somewhat the bare minimum of a "good" RPG? (not talking about action RPGs here! thats a different kind of game).

    Hands down. We can all agree that games like Fallout, Arcanum and even more Planescape are aimed at a much smaller target audience compared to either Diablo or Oblivion [Planescape got very well accepted by the people who played it and I as well think that this is again a evidence that bad marketing/commercials can kill a quite great game I never heard anything about it outside of Forums while Baldurs Gate 2 was acclaimed by the gaming press]. Its not like the principles behind games like Oblivion are new to the gaming world. Even if people like Todd Howard would like you and other players to believe that. Gathering a biger target audience with simplified rules and framework. Almost the same basic idea behind Oblivion (simplification) was present in Diablo, frankly thogh on different level. The story of Diablo 1 or 2 never demanded from the player to "immersive" him self in it [not the player or avatar! I am talking about the story, plott and quests!] you basicaly have no reason to "think" about the story or anything you do inside cause you have really no choices around it. Its either killing or doing nothing. Almost like Oblivion. Regardles of what people at Bethesda think, games like Oblivion are NOT RPGs, or if anything bad ones when it comes to roleplaying and that is cause they want to please a group that usualy doesnt like RPGs in the first place. Hence the twitch gaming. And that is the same with Fallout 3. Its aiming foremost at a target audience that would not "like" RPGs. This can be seen alone by comparing sale numbers. While Fallout sold with both versions together maybe around 500 000 units Diablo alone sold aprox the double.

    How comes that? Is that now the true evidence that Diablo has the better "concept" or is a "better game" compared to Fallout? Means that now a Porsche or Ferrari Tosterosa


    is "less" worth compared to a Volkswagen or Toyota
    :xaZInY-Zy_PIUM:http://www.fermodes.de/pictures/autonews/01127-gross.jpg" title="" />
    cause they sold a lot more units? By no means is that true.

    Or is it just simply a different design, target audience and thus totally different experience [you would never use a Pickup like a Ferrarie and neither a Ferrari like a Pickup] :P

    RPGs as we have known them will not happen in the big gaming buisness like before. And Interplay was not a small company compared to the other game developing companies like Bethesda or Bioware and all the others. It seems that one has to search now for independed projects like Age of Decadence or commercial products in europe namely east europ. The market for such kind of games is definetly there and you CAN earn a lot as company! You just can not expect to make the next Call of Duty, Hallo 3 or Oblivion with such a concept. But that is only needed anyway if buisnesspeople can not get enough ... I love here the analogy Vince is throwing around with X-Com (did not played it) where with the firs game somewhat around 7 people worked on and later when they killed the game people have known and liked they had a team with how many? 50 or 70 people ... one can only imagine what they would have done with the first x-com if they had access to so much manpower. Or just thinking about Fallout 1 here ...

    In my eyes we somewhat reached a pritty dark midle age where everything is falling back in primitive concepts of "only for the masses" and where only this concept is the true one when we had a high culture before that allowed a lot of diversity. And the gaming press somewhat serves like a inquisition that makes sure only the "true" concept is the right one. Maybe we need to do what the french did ... chop a few heads off and see what comes out of that :shock: :mrgreen:
     
  14. Corvin

    Corvin It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Nov 17, 2008
    Bioware made Baldur's Gate.

    One of those things I try to get people to realize... but they insist on making Fallout 1 and 2 to Fallout 3 comparisons.

    It gets down to high art/low art arguments. Art is art. They're all games... no matter what people assert. If people play them they have to be good to some extent. Fallout 3 is not Daikatana.

    ...the RPG purists will also claim 'there've been no turnbased RPGs since pre 2000' and ignore anything on a portable system... 'there is no story!' and ignore things like GTA4.
     
  15. marko2te

    marko2te Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    369
    Sep 24, 2008

    Lets take example of Fallout 3, for one person that claims that F3 has a bad writing or story there are ten people that claim that F3 is a great game with great dialogs and great story. The point is that when you can satisfy majority of audience with bad writing why spend money and time developing something to appease minority. The problem is in people like you that keep praising and defending developers actions and allowing them to make bunch of money for half of effort.



    Why make a sequel to a series that most of targeted audience
    never heard of. When you make a sequel and promote it as a true sequel you have to accept that there are some wacky people out there that will compare it to the old games and not like that you made something completely different. Bethesda promoted F3 as a true Fallout game and that fans will be overjoyed with what they did.



     
  16. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Then why call it a sequel, why CLAIM that it is a sequel ? For crying out loud they named it fallout 3. And fallout 3 is not a bad game on its own ,yes, but it is trying to be a sequel, at least in name.

    Portable system TB RPGs do exist, but again, why would a person who has a computer want to play them, or has to play them ? And the games are rarely western RPGs.
    And GTA4 is a sandbox crime game. I really wouldn't say it is an RPG. :|
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Your point is ?

    And why should "we" not compare it? Its a sequel to the first 2 games. And when it comes to Fallout and 3 the case here is Nomen est omen. Would you not compare Da Vincis art with the art of someone that claims to make paintings of the same quality like Da Vinci and wants to continue his work with his spirit in mind and see if it has the same quality and distinctive design? I dont see why even if it would be art (And Bethesdas Fallout 3 is not art, its a "product") can not be compared in its quality or design with past games. Fallouts success and mechanics can be in most aspects demonstrated in logic tracts just as with any other known game (it has a reason why people liked and still like GTA, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy and as well Fallout 1/2).

    Again Fallout 3 is not Daikatana. Its Fallout 3. That they are games makes it even easier to compare it with past Fallout titles. Though who has said games can not be art? Of course games can be art. Fallout 3 is just not art. Its a product. It has been developed like a product, it has been market like a product and of capital importance their own creators treat it like a 'product'. When ever a controversial situation shows up, any sign of 'hurted sales' Bethesda is steping 2 steps back when there is not even a reason to move. Like the Japanese version of Bethesdas Fallout that has been cencored cause Bethesda is afraid to many nuclear references to the Fatman and destroying Megaton 'might' hurt sales in Japan when I never found any evidence that the Japanese autorities ever demanded or mentioned to Bethesda any necessity for a censorship. No artist would criple or cencor his own art when he has no reason for it.

    I can not give any comments about GTA4 since I have not played the game. But the last thing I heard about the game was that its a action game and not a "RPG". So ... I dont even know what the point here is. By the way even if I have not played the game I somewhat doubt the Story has the same kind of depth like a few very good old RPGs I know. Of course a story driven game can as well have good or at least enjoyable gameplay.

    The thing about Turn Based combat and Real Time is ... most of the time we only say that Turn Based combat more or less coexisted with Real Time and First Person gameplay. Both are design. Used to achieve a special unquire experience. You can not use Turn Based to get a Real Time experience and vise versa. As said. Take your time to read carefully what people mean. A Ford Courier and Ferrari Testarossa are BOTH cars. But you would not use them for the same experience. Would you use a Rolls Royce for plowing your field? [Thats what Bethesda did when they butchered SPECIAL for a REAL TIME FIRST PERSON experience and why it feels so extremley watered-down hence the argument of twitch-gaming and fast pased combat].

    The devs of Fallout 1 chose Turn Based combat for their game before they have thought about the setting in the first place so It was as well not just a "technical limitation" to say it that way, many games used at the same time real time and first person. They used TB combat to achieve a unique experience.
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfOVLdmEHkg[/youtube]Notice the first game was even designed in medival setting with swords and armor.
    *Thx to Gizmo who uploaded it on his account!

    And still quite many cant understand it and just babble the same stuff all the time that its "old", "antiquated" and "un-immersive". As said I can here as well only point again to Vince and the excelent interview i stubled across recently. You should realy take your time and read it before posting or saying anything about Turn Based combat. For those that LIKE! Turn Based combat it IS INDEED IMMERSIVE. One can realy understand it and why some people are angry when he takes his time to deconstruct the arguments of the "other side". Seriusly it is not that hard. Most common people have usualy the necessary brainpower to do that.
     
  18. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Hmm, I don't think any RPG purist would ignore Troika's games, and those are def. post-2000...

    It has nothing to do with art in FO3 case... Games aren't art just like Hollywood movies aren't art. But then again, just because some movie was made in Hollywood, doesn't mean that it's automatically awesome and everyone has to love it even if they think it sucks or if they hate the style of the remake (hint, hint).

    GTA doesn't really qualify for RPG either. An RPG is a junction of role-playing and the stat system, GTA may have story but doesn't have the stat system developed enough.

    2 Corvin I personally dislike Beth's games because it's just not my style of gameplay, but I hold nothing against Bioware, addons to the original NWN were decent, I thought Shadows of Untertide was brilliant.
     
  19. Corvin

    Corvin It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Nov 17, 2008
    I dunno. I sure remember doing a lot of minigames in San Andreas to train up skills. Missions are a lot like quests. I think late era GTA can at many times be a RPG hidden in action adventure clothing.

    Don't get me started on the 'level your football player up and raise his stats and skills through high school and into the pros' quest mechanic in NCAA and Madden 08...you play that single player through a vast series of games. Newspaper clippings tell stories between them.

    I dunno. My cousins sure seemed to love emulating the Pokemon games though. I think the PC gaming market as a whole is pretty thin right now... not just RPGs.
     
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am not a long time NMA poster, but I follow this forum for at least 2 years closely. But I can tell you that. You will have a hard time arguing here if you really try to suggest people GTA 4 is a "RPG".I would not do it. Seriously.

    I agree AND dissagre with this. If you mean with it, that big companies like Bethesda and Bioware are trying to get a focus now on much biger target audiences even if they dont fit in their demographic trend, [I dont say that FPS lovers can NOT enjoy RPGs. I love FPS shoters. But I would never get the idea to search in some RPG what I want to get with FPS games]. Then yes. You are right the market here has become a lot more narrow since many companies today try to not go anymore for their usual target audience (RPG players in cases with Fallout) but a "biger" mass which means in the eyes of Bethesda "simplified gameplay and plott" (cause READING! is so uncool! and so much not the shitz!).

    If you mean though that the PC market is DROWNING. Then no. Sorry, then you just are eventualy one of the many that decided to jump on the bandwagon that many companies and costumers already brabbel for the last 10 years or so. The real truth is that the drifference between console and PC players is not as big like many would like to believe. You have of course differences, but most people are old enough and had their experience with both systems in one way or another. The PC and the consoles. Guess how many here on this board who played and love Fallout called a Nintendo entertaiment system their own at some point. Frankly there are differences of course. PC players tend to prefer for their machine most of the times with certain games just a "biger" quality and dont buy every game only cause the hype machine dictates them. And that is what a few dont like cause it makes it of course much more difficult to sell games like Oblivion on the PC compared to Platforms like the X-box. Other great example, Spore. It was quite a "ok like" game but it definetly was not the new revolution like the hype suggested it. And what do they do? Instead of searching for the reason eventualy in the DRM issue or that it might really had not that awesome gameplay they just jump on the "pirates are the fault".
    Short excerpt:
    The Sims 2 currently holds the record for the most pirated game. Pirates and disappointed fans are looking to change that. According to the TorrentFreak blog,
    [Spore's] download rate exceeds that of any other pirated game in history, and in a week or two from now it will be the most pirated game ever on BitTorrent.

    Spore is still one of the worst rated games on Amazon. Since its release it has been given a rating of only 1 star by more than 50% of its reviewers.
    (...)

    Nice one. Really. Great jo EA :clap:

    *Edit to clarify one thing I do NOT encurage or approve the fact to pirate software and hard work. But its about to make a point. And to just say there are issues with the gaming but companies like EA or Bethesda are searching for solutions in the wrong places.