Interesting (alternative) life philosophies?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by hexer, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. TMNTSPYVSSPY

    TMNTSPYVSSPY First time out of the vault

    19
    Apr 23, 2014
    If it can't be fixed with duct tape, throw it away... Also, it isn't illegal until you get caught... like sex in a public bathroom
     
  2. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    which one of them?

    With "historically real person" I often see a lot of problems, take Jesus:
    If he was real, and we are being realistic, then we must remove everything supernatural from him - we must preferably also remove typical repeat-myths, such as martyrdom and such ideas, that are just as likely simply applied to him.
    We end up with a carpenter, who may or may not have challenged authority.

    If he was real, in all the mythical details, then I am a flying pig.

    So... it sortof becomes pointless - if he was real, he was just an ordinary dude - otherwise he is a symbol of human sacrifice, martyrdom, fertility and adherence to farming seasons.
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well, describe ordinary dude. If he managed to leave his mark on history, then he was not ordinary I guess. Does it matter if the Bible sees him as messiah for the fact that he existed? Its pretty much accepted that there is a historical side, where jesus at least existed. At least it seems very likely. Its your choice in what side of the story you want to believe. Though I am not sure if that should change something on the message. What ever if you believe in the historical or the mystical figure, what counts is what you take as lesson from it. And that is a very personal choice. I have no doubts that not everything they said about gaius julius caesar is entirely correct. Yet, why do we believe in him as historical figure but have at the same time problems to believe that Jesus was true. If someone wants to believe in him as the mythical figure, then it is not really a problem for me. Not more then someone who believes that the world was created by giant snake or a god castrating his father. I always have a problem with people that take this all as ridiculous or backwards just because its not scientific. Do I believe in it? Hell no! But I dont think that I am better or more inteligent compared to someone who has a very strong believe in mysticism. People believe what they want to believe, and when ever we start to feel supperior to someone, we will start to disslike each other and stop to talk. I tend to believe that all our ideas can cooexist, as long we dont decide to hurt others. Or force them to believe what we do.
     
  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012

    You can enjoy the value of the story of Jesus, without ever having heard his name though. So, once I can establish to myself that it likely is a myth, then Jesus is to me equal to Espen Askeladd.

    You know who Espen Askeladd is? He is a Norwegian figure of national-romantic storytelling.

    His values are virtue, fairness, honesty, bravery, and first and foremost putting himself before others (sacrifice),
    he is as good as Jesus, as real as Jesus (both being mythical imho), but Espen is much more relatable to me. He is a little dweeb, living in the woods, trying to make the best of his mediocre life. I choose Espen! I don't believe in him for shit, I would be insane to believe in Espen, he meets trolls, he is capable of levitation, stuff like that, but hey, beats Jesus.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    except that jesus also existed as historical figure. At least that is what many believe. Most modern scholars agree that Jesus existed. Which is not something you can say for every figure in human history.

    But you are right. That doesnt mean you cant give those characters value. What ever if your love lies for someone like Beowulf or Jesus.
     
  6. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Many scholars believe Jesus is an amalgam, and there are new studies coming out backing it up. Consider that Jesus, in the west, has been kind of a "protected figure", that it has almost been deemed immoral to doubt - even from a scientific point of view. This "taboo" has gone away lately, giving way for a much wider acceptance at the idea of Jesus as non-historical.
    It is no longer that controversial to consider Jesus not to be historical, and the reasons I gave initially are the strongest points: That Jesus has existed several times, in several very similar incarnations. This is common in human story-telling, and again my point with Espen.
    Espen is NOT unique - he is repeated all over the world, his exploits, his lessons, his rewards. Sure, we could strip Espen of all the supernatural stuff - once we do, nobody can say Espen is not historical - if all we are left with is an ingenuine young man, living in the forest, for then to get out on a lucky adventure, help beggars on the way, for then to win a large patch of property. I mean, that is the *jist* of the Espen-stories.
    All these stories tend to get to their points.

    Anyway, I'm not really trying to convince anybody here, the Bible could spell it out "By the way - ever compared the life of Jesus, and the yearly cycle and solistice and all that? Fits like a glove! Nevermind that tho!"
    I'm terrified of "faith" because nothing goes, no logic, no argument, nothing. Try using logic with Raelians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raëlism).

    That said, I'm not "against" people believing Jesus or Siddharta or Beowulf for that matter, were real people, it just... nags me... that the human condition is so adament in rejecting real heroes and real rolemodels, for what we cannot see - yet insist is there. This is a tremendous side-effect of human intelligence: To always see what is not there - insist it is there despite nobody being able to detect it - and then going as far as to kill and maim, in order to defend your position that something invisible, inaudible, empty, is indeed there! Be it souls, Jesuses, heavens, hells, gods, enlightenments, and so forths. This is unfortunately the same stuff creativity is made of, and the same stuff that gives me joy in my life - to imagine - to envision what is not here.

    We are the anomaly here, we are the error in biology. Nothing else misjudges reality as insistingly as we do (paradoxally in our quest to read and analyze as much of reality as we can)
    To summarize my lil rant before it loses itself completely - we should be more like turtles. In general, in mental capacity. Or seals.

    Or penguins!
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  7. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Here's an excerpt from a chat I had:

    Just analyze what is good in your life and expand upon it, that is my philosophy. And if you can't do that then it is obvious that you have to take a chance, and go do something new. The exception being those things that come at a cost to others of course. I could write more in-depth about my views on life but it doesn't always flow naturally or eloquently enough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  8. I am god.
     
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  9. Korin

    Korin So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Admin

    Aug 6, 2010
    I'll put forth my life philosophy. For the purpose of this post, consider what I am positing as being synonymous with a meaning or purpose of life. I have spent a fair amount of time contemplating this particular philosophy as a part of my ever evolving perspective on life. When I asked myself recently, "What is the meaning/purpose of life?" the conclusion I came to was that there isn't one unless you create or choose one. While someone may share a similar purpose or meaning in their life, ultimately it is still only yours. Your world of existence is isolated to you. Everything existed before you were born and keeps existing after you cease being able to experience anything. You are in a way your own kind of universe. An island in a sea of islands.

    I think there being no meaning or purpose is the ultimate truth. It's a philosophy that is unappealing because it is a kind of paradox. To truly have a meaning or purpose in life, you must first acknowledge that there is none. You are responsible for creating or finding one. Religion appeals to many people because they want to believe there already is a purpose. That it's already figured out for them or that something exists and that there is something on the 'other side' of death. There is already a framework for the meaning of life and it's just a railroad track you ride until the last station. If you believe in religion you can live comfortably without having to ever look too deeply. But choosing your own is scary because in so doing you have to first acknowledge there is none. That there is no after life. There is no reward or repercussion for how you live your life. You are only accountable to you. You have no knowledge or experience of the billions of years prior to your birth and will cease being able to experience the billions of years that come after when you die. It won't be blackness but an experience of inexperience. Going to sleep and not waking up. Being put out for surgery and not coming back. Having life ripped away from you while you struggle to breath on a hospital bed but keep slipping further away into nothingness, your fingernails grasping at the walls of consciousness like a child falling down a well. To accept that there is no meaning is terrifying and at the same time liberating. It means we aren't the center of the universe. It means the things that happen both good and bad just happen for no real reason at all. In the vastness of space and even on earth, we are not even a grain of sand. The complexity of life and space is beautiful and mystifying and we're a part of it but ultimately just a part of it. It wasn't made for us or us for it. It simply is. When we die, our molecules will keep existing, though our consciousness will not. Our molecules and atoms will survive for millions more years becoming a part of and apart from millions of different things but the arrangement that made our conscious thought an existent thing will long be forgotten, like a puzzle taken a part and thrown back in the box.

    So, first having acknowledged that there is no meaning, I find my own. I have everything to live for and nothing to die for. I'm alive and the experiences I have are real and valuable to me while I am still able to experience them. They will turn to dust when I am dead but until then I keep going after them. I do the things I love and keep working to get better at them. I swing dance and go balls out on the dance floor. I play trumpet and guitar. I make friends and have good relationships with people. I love and am loved. I constantly examine and re-examine myself. I invest heavily in my physical and mental health. I try to resolve conflicts and bolster personal deficiencies. I just keep investing in myself and life, since it's the only one I have. I don't have any end goal for when I die. I don't want to die at all. But I'd like to live my life with as much love and exuberance as possible. I know I won't die wishing I'd done less of any of those things.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  10. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    "When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself." -Peter O'Toole

    I don't think you've properly explained how you come to this conclusion, that to choose one's own life's meaning is to first acknowledge that there is none.

    I really like your post, and I agree with a lot of it, but in reading it you made a jump from idea to idea without a bridge here, so to speak.

    I kind of agree with this, but I would also posit that life itself is special. As Sagan said, we are a way for the cosmos to know itself. On top of that, we are made of star dust. The star dust part is sentiment, sure, but I can not shake the awe I feel when I hear Ramachandran say: "Here is this mass of jelly you can hold in the palm of your hand. And it can contemplate the vastness of interstellar space." This is coincidentally where my awe and respect for intelligence comes from, and the disconnect I seem to have with regular people.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7jSFeVz1U

    Even if I were to agree more wholeheartedly on the insignificence of a single person, I would still posit from another reason that conscience is special. To us. To a human being pleasure is pleasurable, and our daily events are significant to us. The human viewpoint is significant even in relation to the rest of the universe and how little we are in it, precisely because it is our one and only viewpoint, and it is ours.

    I'm of course not saying that you think life or conscience is not in any way a good thing, but I wanted to bring my reaction to the ideas of insignificance of humans in the big picture, to the table.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  11. No Man

    No Man Gore Bag > Meat Bag

    201
    Feb 20, 2014
    I believe life is best with the sensible ejoyment of human remains cut to pieces and placed within a bag or a sack of some sort. The result best defines the purpose of life and death and is simply majestic. It brings happiness to children and adults alike. The magnificent Gore Bag won't judge, laugh or make demands - it's the man's true best friend.
     
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  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    alternative phylosphy alright

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
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  13. Korin

    Korin So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Admin

    Aug 6, 2010
    What I mean is there is no pre-made/underlying meaning that already exists. I am an atheist, so I don't believe in any kind of grand design or that we exist for some higher reason other than we just happened to exist. I use to be religious, back in the day. The move from believing in Christianity to being an atheist was a 180. Religion is human made but an attempt to assign some kind of meaning or purpose to our existence. I don't believe that there is any pre-existing purpose. I think believing that one exists is fanciful and self-centered in the same way we use to think the universe revolved around the earth. Admitting that and ceasing to cling even a little bit to some kind of religion was the scariest leap I've ever taken. It was taking the glass floor out from underneath my feet and dangling above the abyss.
     
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  14. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    Don't know about you guys, but I worship the moon... or at least an entity represented by the moon. And I think my soul is derived from a tree dwelling mammal like thing.

    I don't think there is any particular reason to be alive, which is very freeing as I can choose to give myself reason for existence.

    So yeah, I'd say I have some alternate life Philosophies.

    Also, mecha stompy stompy stuff'em in a Gore Bag! Watch'em pop watch'em sizzle Stompy stompy pew pew! Stuff'em in a Gore Bag!
     
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  15. Byzantine

    Byzantine Sink me in the ocean.

    171
    Sep 4, 2014
    This video sums up my personal life philosophy better than my own words ever could.



    Video aside, I can't say that I put much thought into this sort of thing on a regular basis; I'm not a philosopher.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
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  16. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    The hand in the vase.
     
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  17. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    *Ahem*

    YOLO
     
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  18. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    I have never liked the act of believing in something. In fact, I have never liked the verb 'to believe'.

    Most of the definitions given above lack a phrase, and that phrase is: 'without any proof'.

    The way I look at life and reality in general is based solely on proof. Empirical results. The laws of nature. Maths. All the rest is hogwash to me. That includes any of the human 'sciences'. And that includes philosophy as a whole.

    So I lack an interesting (alternative) life philosophy. I can offer you the cold, hard data scientists have gathered so far, but this information is out there, in books, magazines, on the internet, free to peruse. If you have a somewhat inquiring, skeptical mind and you're not above questioning the dear beliefs that were spoonfed to you when you were young and naive and malleable, you should be able to piece the pieces more or less together yourself. If not, I do not care.

    In all honesty, for me, this "way of thinking" has indeed resulted in some life decisions, some alternative behaviour, some odd choices, but it does not govern my life because that's not what science does. Science isn't a way of living or a philosophy; it's just science. But I am an atheist because of science. And I am a misanthrope because of science. There is some other stuff. :roll:

    As for morals and ethics I am pretty eclectic and basically pick whatever makes sense to me. Some of that stuff can probably be found in some holy texts because they should come natural to any human being that is capable of empathy. So I don't try to hurt anyone because I don't like feeling hurt either. And I won't kill another human being because I wouldn't appreciate getting murdered either. Normal, human stuff. I'll read a Vonnegut novel and - kazam! - I will be touched by a thought, an idea so human and intuitive, a brainfart that makes so much common sense, that it'll change the way I look at things:

    It's stuff like that, a poem, a song, a work of art in the local museum, a YouTube video, a hilarious comedy, a good talk with a kindred soul, that will instill some happiness in me, some pleasure and enjoyment amidst the insane and cruel maths and physics of it all.

    It's enough to keep me going.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
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  19. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I don't like the idea of not being able to be alone. When religious people try to give me envangelizing spiel they usually tell me that when I receive Jesus in my soul I won't ever be alone, and that to me is a extremely creepy and suffocating tought. I like hanging out with friends but I am the most comfortable when I am completely alone with my toughts.

    Part of my somewhat extreme introversion is that I spent a lot of time alone when I was a child as a result of my mother having to supply for the 3 of us by herself and of course she would need to work extra hours, also I was bullied in school and for some reason the town I grew up with was seemingly chock full of the most cuthroat and hypocrital shits I have ever met, so I think it led to a dislike of being surrounded by people and a sense of calm when being left alone either reading or drawing. I never got into religion once I reached 13, and by the time I was 17 I had become completely atheistic (altho I am not a militant one, people can believe whatever they want and I have no interest in converting anyone to anything). So I guess I am just a lazy Introvert.
     
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  20. Sduibek

    Sduibek Creator of Fallout Fixt Moderator Modder

    Oct 27, 2010
    Two more:

    1) A perception of reality and spirituality dependent entirely and exclusively on one's interpretations of Tool song lyrics.

    2) The belief that what we experience when under the influence of hallucinogens, or transcendent meditation, or other such altered states of consciousness, is in fact the true reality of existence; everything else being false or illusory.