Is There A Such Thing As Having 'Too Many Mods'?

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by The_WitchDoctor, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. The_WitchDoctor

    The_WitchDoctor It Wandered In From the Wastes

    102
    Jun 8, 2015
    How many mods is too many? I know people that have hundreds of mods (not over-exaggerated) on a single game, with each mod adding a fair amount of content. I've known people who have modded games to the point where they would no longer work because they had too many, and they were all conflicting with either eachother or the game's original script. I also know people that don't like to add any mods, or will only add one or two to balance out in-technicalities.

    Is there a such thing as having "too many mods" or a game being "too modded"? How many mods do you have to add before the game your playing becomes a completely other game entirely - unrecognizable to the vanilla version?

    Discuss.
     
  2. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I'm definitely one of the non-mod guys. There are some exceptions, such as Tamriel Rebuilt to Morrowind, and Elsweyr to Oblivion. Neither of them conflict with the vanilla game

    Oh, and the Restoration Project for Fallout 2! I knew I was forgetting something! Says something about how seamless that mod is :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Is there such a thign as too moded? Well duh? When the game breaks.
    Max amount of mods you can run in bethesda games without it slowly imploding everytime you boot it up is 135.
    I sometimes struggle with keeping the number because there are so many cool mods that improve on gameplay and add content.... but they have like 5 esps and a compatibility patch for all the other mods so a third of my load order is compatibility patch between the other 2 thirds of the mods.


    If a mod "conflicts" with the Vanilla game then that's a poorly made mod, simple as that. What is more likely to happen is for the mod to conflict with another mod.
     
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  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    By "conflict" I meant interact directly or change in any way, for example, I don't add weapons mods, skin mods, new creature mods, and such. The RP is an exception here of course, but Elsweyr for Oblivion, or TR for Morrowind don't add any content to the vanilla portions of the game - you have to move your character away from the vanilla area to interact with the modded content.
     
  5. Askorti

    Askorti HATE NEWSPAPERS

    641
    Jun 30, 2015
    I do use mods if I can. In Skyrim my record was around 140 mods before the game got a bit unstable and I got bored of the game for the X time anyway.
    In Fallout New Vegas I didn't get as many, only around 50. I generally avoid ones that improve graphics and just add unneeded clutter. There is enough stuff in the game to occupy me for a long time.
     
  6. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I'm not really understanding why this is a question.

    Yes, absolutely there can be too many mods. First of all each mod will occupy some amount of system resources, and those are finite, but if you install too many you will experience a drop in performance. Eventually the drop in performance will make the game markedly more frustrating to play than it would be with fewer mods.

    Secondly, you can have mods that conflict with each other and break the game. Since the "broken" state is a function of adding a mod that doesn't play well with your other mods, then it is tautologically an issue of "too many" mods (if you had one less than you did after you add the one that breaks everything, you would be better off.)

    Finally there's a point where you can add so many mods that the game just becomes stupid to the point of being unfun. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBSB9HBofQ
     
  7. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    OR a poorly made game.

    It's almost like asking if there's such a thing as too little RAM, isn't it?
     
  8. The_WitchDoctor

    The_WitchDoctor It Wandered In From the Wastes

    102
    Jun 8, 2015
    It's more a question of gaming ethics. Like how many mods until the game becomes something else entirely (not literally), far from what the original creators had in mind...
     
  9. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    722
    Jul 9, 2015
    It is possible to have too many mods, but the real question to me is when do mods stop being mods and become free labor? IE, fixes that are necessary to allow a game to function properly but which are made by fans versus the company that sold said game, or to restore content/mechanics that have been removed during the step into a sequel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  10. Stone Cold Robert House

    Stone Cold Robert House Mojave Rattlesnake

    157
    Jul 6, 2015
    Well, of course. I can install 400 mods in a game and there isn't necessarily anything stopping me, but it'll probably cause dozens of major conflicts, increase load times to an unbearable point, or melt my computer.

    However, if we disregard technical issues and consider only the gameplay aspect and how much until modding stops enhancing the game, it's something else entirely. A real problem with a lot of mods is that content creators often have no idea of being subtle or making things work smoothly. In other words, a huge number of mods out there are overdone. Last month I installed a home mod for Fallout: New Vegas, and all I really wanted was a spacious interior with all the amenities I needed and a comfortable design, something which seemed like it could fit in the vanilla world. Instead I got a gigantic vault with a dozen bedrooms, a massive laboratory with tools nobody ever uses, storage rooms that are nothing but ugly lines of containers with unecessary auto-sorters, large armories and even a VR pod and a teleporter which seemed totally out of place. It could have been a nice mod, but the author just didn't know when to stop adding things. In addition, I think a lot of developers have trouble recognizing feedback. See Skyrim - when it came out, everyone loved all the armor mannequins and weapon displays, and people wanted more, so the logical idea was for modders to make houses with more mannequins and displays, right? The problem is when people add too much. I once downloaded a mod for Skyrim which was a tower, in which an entire floor was dedicated solely to a circle of mannequins and nothing else; the floor right below that was just dozens of displays. It's unrealistic, awful design, when good planning would instead result in placing those elements in a way that worked harmoniously with the rest of the location. All because they responded to player demand excessively.

    It's all about balance of design. And it's not just about a mod working with itself and with the vanilla world - what happens when you have 50 major mods and you want them to not conflict thematically? Because even if it's all technically compatible, not everything may fit in the universe. Personally, I'm actually a big fan of altering games in large ways. I always play every game 100% vanilla at least once, but after that when I'm revisiting what I already played, it can be very interesting to overhaul everything and get a whole new experience, dig? So let's build new towns, spawn new characters, complete new quests, and install as many graphical enhancers as my hardware can handle. It's about making it more enjoyable and fresh even if the original experience was already good. And that's exactly where the problem is.

    How many content packs can I add until it stops working seamlessly? Nobody is a fan of a particular mod sticking out like a sore thumb, any player wants them to improve the game as a whole. But no, I do not believe this has anything to do with "ethics" and taking the game too far from what the creators intended. That would only happen if you modded your game extensively and then judged the original work based on that. In this case, you've already experienced the game as it was initially built, you may or may not have enjoyed it, but you've seen it. Afterwards, what you do with the software is about how you, and you alone, want to change the experience into something better or simply newer. I talked about having everything work harmoniously. The reality is, that depends entirely on your standards and what you put into your game. If you're not bothered by having various levels of different design philosophies coexisting, then you can mod as much as you like. Alternatively, if you don't like stuff that feels out of place within the lore, that's the limit of which mods you can use. And if you can handle lore-unfriendly mods so long as they all add up to make a great experience, that's the limit you're setting for yourself before it's too much. The only factor is taste and entertainment value.
     
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  11. Moosick

    Moosick cats

    458
    Jul 8, 2015
    Not really. Modding implies going against what the 'final product' is in some way, adding or cutting content, etc. What one may conclude is that F2 or NV is an unfinished game that is improved with mods, but that's largely subjective outside of quotes about Freeside and fixing broken scripting. The only real issue is your own judgement of what counts as true to a series and whether you particularly care, something SCRH mentioned above with the player home thing. On an 'objective' level, the only thing that's 'too many/much' is instability caused by conflicts and more pressure on the engine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. Ceratisa

    Ceratisa Sarcastic SOB

    229
    Nov 4, 2013
    No, it really isn't possible, its all about the mods you choose. If you choose out of place content to add into your game, that's on you. But expanding the game, improving existing systems/making new better ones, is a good thing.
     
  13. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    Is there such a thing as a game that is too much fun? Is there such a thing as being too satisfied with a product for which you paid good money?

    Interesting discussion, but I'm not sure I understand the original question. If one enjoys a game, and finds well-made mods that add to one's enjoyment of the game, then one should just keep adding and enjoying ad infinitum until something changes.
     
  14. XCalinX

    XCalinX First time out of the vault

    25
    Sep 3, 2015
    There's never too many mods.
     
  15. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007

    A good game needs little modification, other than adding NEW features later, and not FIXING things that were pisspoor to begin with.
     
  16. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Like usual the concept of adding ethics to entertainment is lost on me, same with putting too much emphasis on "What the creator wanted the game to be", dead of the Author bitches, any author who wants to impose his "vision" on anyone's experience is only on the medium for egotistical reasons.
     
  17. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    I agree about 75%. As long as the original still remains in some regard.


    Most GOOD art can't really be overridden by alteration very easily. Depends on the power and authority of the creator.
     
  18. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    I don't understand this 'respect the artist's vision' angle, though it's not anything I'd want to argue about; you fellas are welcome to your own beliefs. The way I see it, game producers work for me, because I'm the one paying them when I buy their games. If I'm dissatisfied with the product I purchased, some of the sentiment here seems to be that I should just throw it away (thus the money I spent was wasted) instead of trying to get better value for my investment by using as many mods as necessary (assuming such are available). The primary purpose of games is to satisfy the player, and expressing artistic goals should be a secondary concern for any competent game designer. A designer who fails to satisfy players fails both as a game producer and as an artist, because if his game sucks no one will play it and therefore his artistic vision will never be expressed. Game designers aren't some holy men, full of wisdom, gathered on Mount Olympus. They're regular guys trying to pay their mortgage like everybody else, and don't deserve any reverence unless they do something to earn that respect.
     
  19. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Wow, what an amazing paragraph you have written there, Erocodne. Good thing I am quite adapt at speed reading, that way in just a quick glance I can discern that you

    are a sheltered and spoiled little baby. I applaud the idea that you think you can go out into the world and expect people to do things for you, and that the world owes you

    something. Must be quite the philosophy to mutter to yourself while shuffling through the food-stamp line inhaling yeasty vagina-farts as they splatter dead fetuses right

    onto the linoleum tiles right in front of you.



    I hope one day you live to see your reality come true, where all artists work for free to please you right before the massive purge that will happen when the Chinese banking conglomerate

    comes to clean us out cause OH BOY have we done a great job to return on our investments here in the good ol' western world of privileged morons. I'm sure that those wonderful artists

    that have enhanced our lives throughout the years were just selfish entitled capitalists, and if they really bunkered down and kept that soul-sucking job in door-frame production accounting

    they could of stayed up all night to shit out a few Mona Lisas for YOU right before they laid themselves in front of that police bearcat coming to burn down your momma's house for being a

    dirty towel-head that ordered the wrong combinations of cleaning chemicals on her Costco online shopping account.




    Well, I guess I decided to read the rest of your comment, which doesn't make any sense compared to the first whole half of it. Two opposing ideologies. Maybe you should ask for that

    government check to get your fuckin' head checked. Being bi-polar can really hamper your social life.

    The artist, designer, creator, company does not WORK FOR YOU. They do what they do, and the ones that serve a purpose live to see another day. Which is sad, because I understand the

    dichotomy here. A big triple A company like EA does not give a shit about you, and will continue to do well because they are really good at selling shit to mass audiences. That means,

    people who are actually GOOD artists that need things like time and resources to actually make something will have a much harder time creating something. More than likely, the product of

    that said person will not need to be MODDED because it's fucking right and working to begin with. To be perfectly honest, I hate modding. I like it in concept, but in practice it is a fucking

    chore to have to make a game function properly with MY OWN TIME.


    You want to add new costumes to your furry-penis-gay-anal-bukkake dinosaur in world of fairycraft, then fine by me. However, if you want to shit on the idea that some artists have a vision

    they are trying to see put to light and communicated in the social realm, and that others are just factories of bullshit, the very same idea that says no art is better than another...everyone

    can do it, then you are so wrong buddy. We aren't in the future where everyone is a magical brain in a tank somewhere just doing niche` things for the greater good. No, we live in the 21st

    century...A giant consumer plantation of half-wits and dumbfucks that can't even figure out how to operate a toaster without burning down the whole fuckin city block. We live in an age

    where most people have to work for a living. If the art pleases you, then AWESOME. If you aren't a fuckin' fan of Marylin Manson, YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN THAT HE DOESN'T MAKE THINGS

    YOU LIKE! You can only complain if he is making shit that he doesn't even seem to like. However, most of those perceptions are lost on people, the subtle differences in such matters, so I'll

    let this comment that is a complete waste of time stand as the monolithic turd that it is to convey the subjectivity of art and complexity of the issue.



    Sincerely, Colin Powell.

    P.S.

    Eat my asshole, and enjoy reading this hunk of shit.
     
  20. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    Dopey Cleric, you seem to be under the impression that I respect your opinion, so let's correct your delusion: buzz off.

    In commerce, customers pay for producers to make things, so competent producers strive to make things pleasing to consumers. It's the basis of modern society, nitwit.