Mexican Border Wars and US Guns

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by welsh, May 9, 2008.

  1. welsh

    welsh Junkmaster

    Apr 5, 2003
    Looks like drug wars on the border are getting worse-

    1000 deaths is usually what you need to have an "official" war.


    And where do the guns come from?

    So we have a border trade- Drugs and immigrants come over from Mexico, while guns go over the border to support the drug dealers.

    And the gangs and their guns come back over the border into the US.

    Seems like a mess.
     
  2. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    How is this in any way "news"?
     
  3. welsh

    welsh Junkmaster

    Apr 5, 2003
    News as of late last April and early May, and not reported here and I am interested in this, and I'm an admin who gets to decide these things.

    I think quite a few Americans don't realize that the drug wars and the violence in Mexico is partially due to Americans making a profit off both drug running and weapons smuggling.

    This is a case where a US civil right is causing insecurity abroad. That civil right is also threatening the security of the US and another country. And that's because the civil right is not adequately defined.
     
  4. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    Given, this article is from canada. Obviously Canada's border is far better protected than the US Mexico border.

    Welcome to the world illegal gun trade. Where guns are stolen from homes, and corrupt government officials with keys to city arsenals.

    AND SOLD ON THE BLACK MARKET! :D

    To tell the truth, I have seriously considered buying guns from illegal dealers. Both because I'm too young to legally buy a handgun, and because I wanted to get a gun off the illegal trade. Then I came to my senses that I would be paying someone who'd just have someone break into another house and steal more guns.

    The problem isn't that the US has guns.

    -----------

    That said, some of what I read bothers me. The boarder guards should be able to search anyone entering or leaving. It is reasonable to search anyone.

    There should be a law requiring reporting multiple gun purchase to local law enforcement.



    NOW I've got a question for you. How many automatic weapons are used? Cause guns manufactured today do not have a place for automatic sears and old guns that are semiautomatic that have places for automatic sears are incredibly expensive. Hell, even imported guns cannot have places for automatic sears.
     
  5. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Guns are only a small part of the problem.

    The report itself said that police officials are being bribed. Corruption is still rampant.

    Honestly I hate how everyone calls this shit a "war". If the mexicans really want to end drugs, its very fucking simple.

    Fucking blast the bastards, no mercy, no fucking remorse. Send in the fucking army, cruise misslie the villas of drug kingpins. Send in special forces to annihilate low and high level officers. Use tanks, gunships, bombers. Confiscate all drug assets and use them to further pay/fund the police.

    The only way to really stop drugs is to crack down hard. Not through underfunded, under equipped, and under paid police. But a real goverment move.

    However, once again I think this is all smoke and mirrors. The drug trade brings in millions of dollars and way too many people on both sides of the fence are mired in corruption.
     
  6. iridium_ionizer

    iridium_ionizer Mildly Dipped

    558
    Jul 24, 2007
    Calling a policy a "War on ..." is an old rhetorical tool used in politics. It doesn't necessary mean stopping something by the most effective means. It just means that you will at least act like something is being done to stop something.

    To stop the drug trade and the associated violence, we would need to destroy the economic incentive. We could do this as you said by making it so likely that anyone involve in drug trafficking would die by governmental forces that they would lose all economic interests in smuggling. To do this, you would probably have to decrease the life expectancy to minutes for any courier or drug lord. This would likely be difficult to accomplish because drug smuggling uses poor one time couriers and changes tactics frequently.

    Another possible solution would be to eliminate their customer base. Just give a quick death penalty to any hard drug user. Pretty soon they would run out of customers. This would be near impossible to do in the United States. It works in authoritarian countries that fight against drugs - only their rich would be able to use drugs and avoid being caught.

    The last possibility is to make all drugs legal. Marijuana and other mild drugs are available to anyone over 21 with a prescription from a doctor (to monitor health effects). Anyone wanting hard drugs (coke, heroine, or meth) can get them free at any government operated drug clinic. Of course you have to live at the clinic to get the drugs and you can't leave unless you choose to go through rehab and get clean. Most desperate drug users would end up in the system eventually.

    The drugs are really cheap to manufacture and once legitimate business took over there would be no economic incentive to smuggle drugs. You would still need to enforce the law on people trying to get drugs outside of the system, but it is much easier to enforce when the government controls the source. First time use would probably go down too because you wouldn't look cool getting your drugs from a doctor or in a clinic.
     
  7. generalissimofurioso

    generalissimofurioso The Hole Time Orderite

    Jun 17, 2007
    Rommel Moreno is the greatest name ever.
     
  8. [PCE]el_Prez

    [PCE]el_Prez Vault Fossil

    Apr 25, 2003
    One of my good friends that lives here in PHX thinks that American citizens should have the right to shoot illegal immigrants as they are 'invading' our country. At first I laughed but after listening to him for a while (at the bar with various rounds of drinks in the mix) he started to make some pretty good points.... :)
     
  9. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    Such as?
     
  10. McRae

    McRae For sale: clown shoes, never worn Orderite

    Dec 9, 2007
    Yeah, I'm dying to hear which good reasons there could be at shooting people who just cross a damn border.

    The good friend and you are the same person, isn't it?
     
  11. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    Yeah........... Just who is going to straighten everybody out? The government? Who you just said is filled with corruption?

    Problem one: Alcohol

    I'm not even going to go to problem two.

    Hey, after a few drinks you might start talking to yourself too.
     
  12. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Well, down here you are legally justified to kill someone if they break into your home, no questions asked.


    One could surmise that illegally crossing the border is breaking into someone's home... on a more massive scale. I don't care either way about the vigilantes out there guarding the boarder.

    *shrug*
     
  13. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    @ah-teen

    Thats why I said it was all smoke and mirrors. Becuase the government is so corrupt, the problem of drugs will never be eliminated.
     
  14. McRae

    McRae For sale: clown shoes, never worn Orderite

    Dec 9, 2007
    Sorry buddy, I live in sportsmanship so I droped out alcohol a long time ago.

    You're comparing two different things. You can't put on an equal footing with a burglar who breaks into your house, and a foreigner who illegally crosses the border.

    The burglar is an immediate danger for your children/wife,etc... as a consequence, you've got the right to defend yourself and your family by killing him.

    But I don't see where there's an immediate danger with a foreigner who's just crossing the border to get a better life. He's not here to rape your wife (well, not in the first time). So, yeah, you've got the right to stop him, but it should only be with non-lethal means.
     
  15. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    Ummm sorry I just noticed that.... X|

    Freaking awesome. (wants to ban alcohol) :twisted:
     
  16. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    In Poland, about as feasible as banning oxygen.
     
  17. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    IT WILL HAPPEN! I HAVE FAITH! DESTROY THE UNBELIEVER!
     
  18. [PCE]el_Prez

    [PCE]el_Prez Vault Fossil

    Apr 25, 2003
    They cross our borders and cause us damage - doesn't that fit the description of an invasion?

    This is a thread he started on another forum on that subject (it got locked after 1 day:) ):
    http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76450


    My friend has lived in central phoenix in a neighborhood populated with illegals and he dealt with problems firsthand. I'm not as radical as him but we anyone who lives in a border state deals with the repercussions of illegal aliens especially from a financial perspective.

    He's one of my best friends and we have a lot in common - but no the same person.
     
  19. Ah-Teen

    Ah-Teen Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Jun 21, 2007
    Border states... like utah and wisconson.... Yea, its already violent enough, lets not go around shooting people because they are Mexican.
     
  20. welsh

    welsh Junkmaster

    Apr 5, 2003
    Shoot people who are crossing a border only because they are looking to live a better life?

    So you guys are ok with US gun dealers selling guns abroad to what is, essentially a war zone. 1000 dead from combat essentially is defined as a war, and I think we got that in Mexico.

    So, how about we allow Colt, Smith & Wesson and other companies to start wars in foreign countries so that they can sell them guns? We can start with Mexico, then do Latin America, than Africa, Central Asia... and if we run out of countries, we can do that in Europe too.