Most annoying Fallout 1/2 plot holes.....

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by BarbadosSlim, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. BarbadosSlim

    BarbadosSlim First time out of the vault

    Jun 28, 2008
    I lurked a little and I couldin't find one, so I decided to get the ball rolling.

    Okay, what is up with Fallout two making the desendents of Vault 13 being a bunch of spear-chucking heathens in just 80 years time? That makes no sense. You'd think they would trade for guns and ammo at some point. And why can't they just go on hunting parties to eat game? Why does the village have to rely on "you" to find a god damn G.E.C.K.?

    And what is up with the original vault dweller leaving Vault 12 in F1 going North? Why couldn't he just go to the BOS?

    And what is up with San Francisco? How come they aren't a major player in wasteland politics? How come they don't really do anything? That's lame....

    Well, those are the 3 things that bother me the most. What about you guys?
  2. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Thought F2 had way too much "tech".

    We had Vault City, NCR, BOS, working cars, vertibirds, shit, etc.

    I mean the shi were selling PA at the shops to anyone with the cash (shakes head).

    It jsut seemed like almost every faction could "rule" a patch of California which reminds me of civilization coming back. I didn't like the idea very much.

    The only ones to have the best techo should have remained with the BOS and the enclave.

    Most folks here hated the temple of trials.

    How the shi were not just wiped out for the sake of being communist chinese.
  3. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    I think you mean Vault 13…
  4. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    Was the BOS that appealing to your character or to you? I think it makes sense for him to try and start something himself elsewhere, out of the reach of others. Each location in Fallout is tied to your character via death and problems and corruption. You'd want to flee from that for good at some point.
  5. Puokki

    Puokki Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jun 4, 2008
    Them tribals have always annoyed me too, I mean I can understand that if they end up being an isolated community, it's completely understandable that they lose the knowledge of some modern techs and stuff, but still it's pretty unlikely that they descend for the residents of an ultra-hi-tech vault to a bunch of spear swinging herb-eating sun-worshipping tribals in only 80 years, if never.
  6. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Well, while their traveling, they could have picked up other people who are a bunch of spear swinging herb-eating sun-worshipping tribals from the beginning.
  7. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    I agree that the temple of trial was annoying, but making it through the temple or trial is what makes you stand out of the others thus becoming the chosen one thats why they rely on you.

    And I don't think you can just go to the BoS and demand help.
  8. Herr Mike

    Herr Mike Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 28, 2008
    For being one of the most well-written games of all time, Fallout 2 certainly did a poor job of continuing the narrative from Fallout 1, in my opinion. Someday I'll unleash my version.
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    In general I like Fallout 2 a lot, but personally I would not have made Arroyo a tribal village.
    Not a high tech place either but rather something like a survivalist community.

    Houses made of wood or salvaged bricks and mortar, with a low level vibe but not on a tribal level.
    More that the people know of stuff like electricity and computers but simply have no access to these or in a very limited degree.

    Perhaps a little like Shady Sands in Fallout 1.

    They wouldn't worship Brahmin but these would be very important to them, as would be agriculture for food and medicine, and the hunting grounds for gecko's and other creatures which products they can use or sell on.
  10. Puokki

    Puokki Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jun 4, 2008
    That's something I've thought by myself too; they would have taken some hi-tech stuff when they left the vault so they had the knowledge of them, but after they broke down the Vault Dwellers would have been left with just some basic items like tools, clothes and maybe a few firearms. As decades passed, the idea of the Vault would have become something mythical, but that wouldn,t giev them a reason to worship it or nothing. The Arroyo should be a simple community with only a few modern items like guns, limited contact to the outside world, the residents would be very skillful survivors who respected their past, but still something more than a bunch of spear swinging herb-eating sun-worshipping tribals.
  11. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    80 years is a pretty long time, though.

    without shops, ammo stores, a constant supply of things (even things to fix other things with), a seed store to grow crops, water purification systems, lack of hygiene and medicine, ...

    oh man

    a village starting from scratch and fueled mainly by what they were able to scavenge, why a village like that would degrade back to the stone age within a couple of years, I'm sure. if it weren't to die out completely before that happens.

    humans always overestimate themselves. what would have been nice, though, if the scenery had included some objects from the world you get to see later on. a billboard that is revered or a couple of carwrecks that were used to fortify the village even though the inhabitants have lost the knowledge of what they are. stuff like that.

    tribals were an intelligent choice on the part of the developers, methinks.
  12. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    I cannot decide whether this is a plot hole or not, it did not bother me at all.

    Also it put some diversity in the game in a way.
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I dont think it qualifies as polothole.

    A plot hole for me is a clear contradiction to the story. Like in Fallout 3 where you get to the purifer with a ghoul / supermutant which are imune to radiation but you cant send them in to do the job on the computer cause ? Exactly ... bethesda wanted to make sacrifice the topic of the game. No matter the cost.

    I doubt Fallout 1 or 2 had really that much plot holes. Its more that Fallout 2 had many places and situations that didnt fit the setting. Like new reno and its 30s gangster style. Or the Chinese and their "empire" in San Francisco. But that still doestn mean it are bad locations. New Reno has some nice quests and probably is showing pretty nicely the choice and concequence thing. But thats my oppinion.

    Also what A'lec said
  14. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    80 years is NOT a short time. Just think about it - how many things have happened between, say, 1910 and 1990? A lot of events transpired, entire empires grew and fell, two world wars and a lot of smaller ones...

    Seems to me like you haven't thought on the issue at all or checked your sources. The Vaulties-gone-tribal plot device was quite possible a deliberate design choice to fit in with the dark irony of the Fallout world.

    Why do I say that? Examine the storyline. Every horror the Vault Dweller faced in Fallout 1 was a direct product of science and technology, from the very foundation of the Fallout world (a world destroyed by nuclear power) through mutants (radiation from nuclear bombs and FEV) to the Master and the Unity (born from the man-made FEV-II virus). Then there is the Brotherhood, a xenophobic, feudal organization that is obsessed with technology and refuses to use it to help non-Brotherhood humans. Given these experiences it's not a stretch to infer that the Vault Dweller came to the conclusion that technology itself was the problem and so he chose to create a community free of this (perceived) evil - Arroyo. Apparently, he had no problem convincing others to his idea, even Vault 13 people (who probably also saw reason in his words - after all, the fate of an entire Vault once relied on a single control chip, making the humans slaves of machines) and so, he chose a secluded, remote location rich in wildlife and fertile ground to create the settlement.

    Of course, he couldn't envision that after two generations the region would be struck by a horrible drought, one that cannot be mitigated by the village people. Heck, even the people of Modoc, a medium sized farming town couldn't cope with the drought, so how would a small tribe do it? That's the reason the Chosen One was sent for the GECK, as a sort of last, desperate measure.

    Now, where's the irony? It's pretty simple. All of the other communities, from NCR to Vault City, from Redding to Broken Hills, suffer from various social ailments, be it drugs, totalitarianism, democratic sluggishness, lawlessness etc. All of these problems can be traced back to technology. Shady Sands is a pretty clear example - from a self-sufficent, reclusive settlement where everyone works for the common good, it turned into a capitol of a Republic, complete with ever present trigger happy police, biased laws (e.g. Vortis' Holding Center, which is a perfectly legal front for slaving operations, just outside city gates, simply because Vortis has money), shady deals with crime families to pressure other cities into joining the fledgling Republic and corrupt right wing politicians. It's a pretty clear example of how technological advancement can also corrupt a community.

    Arroyo, on the other hand, is a self-sufficent community with little to no crime, where everyone knows each other, is accountable to everyone and the entire community works hard for the common good. What's the noticeable part of that? Lack of technology. Arroyo inhabitants are tribals and yet they lead happier, safer lives than most of NCR citizens or other wastelanders.

    It's perfectly logical.

    See the previous point.

    The Shi simply have an isolationist policy. They don't bother the wasteland and the wasteland doesn't bother them (mostly).
  15. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003

    The thing is the Shi are communists. The enclave are the remnants of the US pre-war government. How they did not have a huge fight I don't understand. Especially since the president believe the red launched first.
  16. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    The Shi are Chinese but they are not communists. And why would the Enclave get in a big fight with them? The Enclave wanted to wipe them out with their virus along with all the others.
  17. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    I guess your right when it comes to the virus wiping out everyone on in the US. But wasn't the Shi descendants of a chinese nuclear submarine that got beached?
  18. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    This doesn't make the location communistic.
  19. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    My problem with Arroyo isn't that they are tribals, but that they are spirit-worshipping tribals. The Vault Dweller lived in Arroyo for 40 years and the FO2 Elder is her daughter, so...why does she act like that? It was the VD himself that steered the tribe in that diretion?
  20. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    There are some inconsistencies in the original games, though. You should pick on New Reno, for instance. That's a classic.