So in the end, did the Super Mutants add to anything?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, May 11, 2009.

  1. Michael of the Wastes

    Michael of the Wastes First time out of the vault

    30
    May 12, 2010
    I think the mutants were fine, and FEV fits the vault experiment concept. The Super Mutants were what prevented the wastelanders from building settlements, scavenging DC, etc. In my opinion, they were just another group of bad guys to deal with in the Wastes.
     
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Again, please check the nature of both FEV and the Vault Experiments.

    The Vault Experiments were to test various social conditions, dilemmas, and questions, not to create Super Soldiers.

    And FEV was highly experimental and a disclosed secret right before the War.
    Only the people of West Tek, the US government, and the US military were suppose to know about this stuff.

    Mariposa base was the dedicated facility to study and experiment with FEV, why put in a Vault were there is absolutely no reason for the stuff to be present.

    Again, Bethesda's just threw the Super Mutants in, in a very very lazy way.

    Something that could have been an explanation, but not a very strong one either is that this was a left over army of the Unity that had traveled to the East Coast.


    No offense man, but you sound like a Bethesda apologist.
     
  3. Michael of the Wastes

    Michael of the Wastes First time out of the vault

    30
    May 12, 2010
    The FEV in Fallout 3 was placed in a Vault as a collaboration between the Military and Vault-Tec, I don't know much about out west, but Vault 87 would have benefitted their knowledge of how the FEV works on average human subjects.

    Vault 87 is the only vault we know of that F.E.V. was used in, and because the U.S. Government essentially absorbed Vault Tec, they probably assigned them to test it at that vault.

    As for 'creating super soldiers' well, I don't know about all that. I'll do some research.

    And no offense taken, I'm just baffled at the outright hatred of Fallout 3 I've seen from most of the people on here. Hah
     
  4. Lynette

    Lynette It Wandered In From the Wastes

    118
    Jan 9, 2010
    In my case its not hatred but simply disdain. Disdain for ruining something pretty I like. Disdain for giving me something ugly wich was suppoused to be beauty. Disdain for shiting (sorry) on something I care for.No its not just a game for me, its a peace of art.(yeah yeah games cant be art......)
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Again, both West Tek and Mariposa Base were dedicated research facilities were work was done on FEV and its applications on test subjects, including humans.

    Check the articles on Mariposa and FEV at the Vault wikia.

    There is no need for a FEV experiment taking place in a Vault, nor does it make sense.
     
  6. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    381
    May 18, 2010
    Did the Super Mutants really add anything? Not at all. I really wish Bethsoft would have taken the chance and created new factions and bad guys exclusive to the East Coast.

    Honestly, the only reason they added their own Super Mutants was to have them for the sake of having them. The back story behind the Vault 87 Super Mutants is weak, and frankly pointless. I'd be willing to except that some of the Mariposa Super Mutants made it to D.C, but randomly creating a new batch of Super Mutants just reeks of having little creative power.

    Interestingly enough, I'm curious to just who the Talon Company Mercs are and how they got started, but alas, that is never explained.
     
  7. Gunjaer

    Gunjaer First time out of the vault

    15
    May 15, 2010
    In reply to geddas, Talon Company is an interesting addition to existing canon, the same as the Institute. Expanding on these factions would have been a great, if not excellent addition to the FO universe.

    I must admit, first I was blown away by FO3 but as my time spent playing it increased, so did the flaws i found.

    The games is full of missed chances.
     
  8. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    381
    May 18, 2010
    The thing that I hated about the Talon Company is they are never fully realized or even give a back story other than "Kill kill kiil!".
     
  9. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    Also, unless the italian translation is wrong (which COULD be, it's decent but far from perfect), in FO3 the Vaults closed way before the bombs fell which brings up a couple of problems.

    -The experiments started anyway shortly after the Vaults closed. What would have happened if the big war never happened? Sooner or later the government would have to open the Vaults...

    -What's the point in making experiments for super soldiers in the Vaults? With a finite number of "guinea pigs"? If they used all the inhabitants and still hadn't results they would have just stopped the experiments? Or opened the vault door and let new vault dwellers in?

    This is even worse if the italian translation is wrong and the vaults closed shortly before the bombs fell. They make experiments for super soldiers...for what reason if the world is nuked? Also the same problem wih the "guinea pigs" applies.
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well I think one reason to have super soldiers or super mutants if you want it that way is to have soldiers and people that are completely immune to the effects of a nuclear war. Radiation. And not even that but also beeing phyisicaly tough enough to survive in any apocalyptic enviroment and hostile area. Be it cause of a dangerous post apoc population or just the enviroment in general in form of deserts, heat what ever you want. So the logic behind a "Super human" project isnt that far away. Not in a setting like Fallout anyway. And I would assume after a nuclear war in side a bunker the need to search for it would even increase.
     
  11. cratchety ol joe

    cratchety ol joe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    480
    Sep 2, 2008
    @Crni Vuk

    I'm unsure if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, or misunderstanding something, but.. I read your post and wonder If you actually comprehend what this thread is about?

    Sure, your input seems 'sensible' but it's as though you don't understand the very basic concept of this thread.

    > So in the end, did the Super Mutants add to anything?

    The question is not 'why are there SM's in the post apoc wastes, the question is one pertaining to if SM's have any logical reason to be included in this game, in doing so treading on established cannon and going against some of the very base premises of how and why SM's were originally introduced.

    As a slight addendum to my previous post, And looking back over some things I think there would be no problem taking FO3 and replacing SM's with Troggs from the Pitt... the Trogs take the basic role of quasi-sentient adversary, and need no real 'motivation' As I understand them they're merely heavily devolved/mutated humans seeking to continue their own existence in a somewhat more feral fashion.

    The SM's in FO3 have no real direction and no 'real' back story, a failed 'evolutionary' vault could just have llikely created the Troggs, more so than an apparent 2nd matched evolution of an idea that originated on the opposite coast of the continent.

    Also, having Troggs instead of SM's would cut down the amount of 5.56 ammo I have from around 80,000 to a more reasonable 40,000 rounds or so.... lets face it SM's in FO3 are just mobile neon signs reading EXPERIENCE AND LOOT
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I only meant to post in relation with this part:

    Sould have quoted it eventualy.


    *Edit
    Personaly, yeah I know what you mean and I do think they did not added anything in Fallout 3. Nothing more then just more "gunz to shoot" and "stuff to loot" which is not what I see as a reall addition.
     
  13. Allotrope

    Allotrope First time out of the vault

    26
    May 31, 2010
    Are you kidding me?

    In the quest where you can save "big town" from a supermutant attack it is noted a couple of times that the super mutants don't actually kill wastelanders but abduct them and take them to an unknown location

    the whole reason for the enclave killing your father and taking over purity was to kill everyone (including the supermutants) by contaminating the water with a modified FEV virus

    super mutants play an important role in the game

    for example:
    they often have humorous dialogues between each other when you are hidden nearby

    they make the capitol inhospitable and dangerous

    --->which leads to epic fights between the mutants, tc mercenaries, and lyons brotherhood--> capitol building is large scale battleground

    super mutant behemoths are crazy to kill, and they like teddy bears?
     
  14. cratchety ol joe

    cratchety ol joe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    480
    Sep 2, 2008
    Big Hamlet itself (I refuse to call it a town) add's nothing to the game it is possibly utterly pointless as far as locations go, thus, and assault (of like 6 mutants???) against this location, even if the muties did win... who cares?! the inhabitants of Big Hamlet are all entirely expendable and add NOTHING to the game... and don't even try to say anything about little fucking lamplight which is actually more of a ridiculous location than big hamlet.

    Also.. unknown location ... whooo spooky (read also: poorly written plot element)

    Go back and read that again (in game) the Enclaves Idea was to 'purify' the wastes not kill everyone, merely the mutated and on a more personal note, this 'bad karma' ending was only included so that the player has the moral crunch choice!! "OMGZ do I put in the enclave bit in not!!!?>!>!??" :aiee: which is just weak plot writing.

    Yup that sure is important to the game! :shrug:

    About as inhospitable as my Bathroom. lets face it:

    Super mutants are:
    easily beaten by Brotherhood
    can be punched to death (even the minigun wielding ones)
    are easy fended off by little lamplight

    There is no way, NO WAY you can tell me that its because of SM's that people don't populate the DC area. they simply present no threat. Any combat capable individual can handle them with ease.

    EPIC FIGHTS !!! (read also: 3 poorly armed Super mutants Vs 2 or 3 Talon Mercs / whatever) The capitol building is about the only bit I can agree with in your statement, however, lets face it, ANY adversary would easily substitute the SM role in these fights.

    ...and quite frankly just a childish OMG look! element of the game which in themselves add nothing other than

    lets get to the nub of it once more:

    Experience and loots.
     
  15. camil2003

    camil2003 First time out of the vault

    88
    Dec 28, 2009
    I gotta give joe the nod on the Super mutant threat level.

    It really didn't help on the Rileys rangers quest that 3 mercs managed to take on a fortress of supermutants and hold an army of them back and the worst case senario that happened to them was that they ran out of bullets.
     
  16. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    381
    May 18, 2010
    Gonna have to give it to Joe. The Super Mutants threat level in FO3 is often greatly exaggerated, as they are often killed by minor things. Hell, I've even had SM's killed by Raiders and a pack of mole rats.
     
  17. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    131
    Mar 29, 2010
    Well Dutch Ghost when you put it that way it really does piss me off that mutants have no earthly business in F3, no explanation either. I fully support the guys that say that they are randomly put there, just because they had em in the previous games. The previous games not only had SMs but they had a good reason to be there, written in the history of Fallout, sth that F3 lacks and where it has, it's trampling over the old one. If anybody looks at the situation from a different angle will see what are complaining about.

    We already had a debate about the canon, and yes in law it is canon as much as I hate to admit it. But I cannot accept sth to be a canon after it tramples over the original canon.
     
  18. RedConversation

    RedConversation First time out of the vault

    18
    May 21, 2009
    First of all, I only read up to page three before my eyes began to bleed from the flamebait and poor grammar by some. That out of the way...


    We'd be lucky if Bethesda employees actually did see these forums, as they might learn something. And there sheer lack of writing could work in their favor if they did.

    For example, a possible explanation could be that over the hundred and fifty years or so between the defeat of the Master, a solitary Nightkin or intelligent super mutant made his/her/its way to D.C., and became the Progenitor of the East Coast Supermutants, hiding away and sending the idiots to do the work. Would make for a great mod or canonizing DLC. Just a thought.

    (Unfortunately Bethesda will never see these words, and if they do, they likely won't listen.)
     
  19. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Again man, that might add some structure to some things but would still ignore one of the big main questions; why are there new Super Mutants?

    Outside West Tek's research facility and Mariposa Base were FEV was being mass produced there is no more FEV.

    This solitary West coast super mutant would have no means of making new Super Mutants.

    I stay with my position, the Super Mutants, and the Enclave for that matter were thrown in because they were major plot devices in the previous games, not because it would make sense.

    They aren't even that good in the FO3 storyline. (the Enclave descending even deeper into cartoon villainy)
     
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well think about it that way ... take away the Supermutants. The Enclave. And last but not least the BOS (both of them) from Fallout 3. And what do you have left ? Not much that would resemble a Fallout game ...