Wasteland 2 released!

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by WorstUsernameEver, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Did you ever played Wizardry?
    CRPG is not much about role playing.
    you are just yourself and charaters are just tools for communicatimg with game.


    in fact, Fallout was started from Wasteland which is also a squad based RPG.
    so, number doesn't matter to RPG I think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  2. oxidize

    oxidize It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 18, 2012
    Ever heard Don't judge a book by its cover?
     
  3. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    Yea, that is a good expression.

    The book cover does nececarilly not tell us anything about the book.

    That is why:
    When I saw the box art for Diablo 3, I did not get a bad feeling from that.
    When I saw the promotional posters for Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace, I did not say something is wrong.
    When I saw the box art for Wasteland 2 I did not think something was wrong.
    When I saw the box art for Rome 2: Total war I did not think, it looks like an awesome game.

    If a classmate makes a visual frontpage for his paper, I don't know wether to tell him to redo it, or keep it as it is.

    But when I saw something concrete from the actual product, that gives me a very strong indication of the quality.
    Or when I used the actual product, I pretty much got the facts about its quality.
     
  4. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Dedman oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Soldat: I started playing Fallout 2 but I quit once I got to the Den. Does my critique matter? Sounds ridiculous to me but I've heard someone say it. Sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it doesn't really mean much in some cases. Some people are very ill informed. As for people jumping to discuss the issue and "defend" Wasteland 2, I think it has more to do with odd reasoning than anything else. The reasons listed thus far are silly. The early game of Wasteland 2 isn't as strong as Fallout 2. It's a given really. It isn't as open in the beginning. Yes there are many corridors and such, but not the whole way through. The game opens up. As we already said.

    I feel like you have only played a couple hours of Wasteland 2 at best. That is why the comment seems off. Me personally I felt like stopping Divinity: Original Sin after the first starting zone, but I toughed it out for about three hours and it improved for me. Wasteland 2 isn't an instant gratification type game. Could it have been more expansive? Of course. Considering the budget though, I think they did quite well. People that have very good taste in RPG's are enjoying the game, not without faults mind you, but they are having a blast. I don't consider these people to be the type that enjoys linear railroaded RPG's with no consequences for your actions.

    Soldat how extensive is your experience with cRPG's? I can't help but feel like some of your critiques are problems with most RPG's in general. Small incongruities are bound to pop up in games like this. The game still needs a couple of patches before it really shines imo. Soldat if you haven't made it out of Highpool your opinion is worth jack shit as far as RPG reviews go. No offense. That is the way of the beast. One can argue if the mechanics in the game aren't good that it isn't worth playing. I argue that aside from aimed shots and perks being missing the mechanics are sound. Some smoke grenades and flashbangs are fucking vital in tactical games and it pisses me off they aren't available. Most RPG's have some extra layer that adds to the combat and Wasteland 2 is missing that. The camera isn't like Fallouts so people don't like it. Also it seems it makes things difficult or tedious at times. Fair points. All valid criticism but...Wasteland isn't Fallout. The game isn't totally finished yet. It's the closest thing to a legitimate Fallout game you are going to get.

    Divinity: Original Sin is comparable to Wasteland 2 in many way. I would argue that Wasteland 2 should follow their lead and release a update that adds shit like Larian did with the new companions. From what Brother None has said, and others as well, I can safely assume that perks would have been in the game but the resources weren't there to finish that in time so it was shelved for later. I would bet money that Fargo and crew will support the hell out of the game post release. What is possible?

    New companions.
    Perks.
    Weapons and hopefully some useful grenades. Smoke and Flash ffs.
    Quests.
    New Zone, dungeons, or towns.
    Bug fixes.

    Not all of those are going to happen, but I think perks and tactical addons like smoke and flash grenades should be something they go for. I would reeeaalllyy like a prone too. Wasteland 2 needs more Jagged Alliance 2 really. More companion talking. More random encounters would be nice. Unique random encounters mind you. YOU HEAR THAT KHARN!!!!! Yeah he didn't hear me. The others are just a bonus.

    Sea and Brother None are our representatives for this whole thing. Hell I think they are more active over on Codex than here, as far as Wasteland 2 stuff goes. Frankly I trust them to do what they can and let our voice be heard at the very least. It's okay to have problems with the game. Some just might not agree that what you say are problems are in fact legitimate. The star issue for one. Absurd beyond belief.

    For one, Rangers would be pretty identifiable out in the wastes. They have radios and considering every single piece of clothing on the rangers portrait isn't represented in their inventory you can safely assume that maybe they have badges. You can use your imagination. One of your big issues with Wasteland 2 is an issue with every RPG I have ever played. Tropes and little quirks are always present. Reactivity is a plus of course. You want the NPC's to accurately react to you right? I agree. Some sort of faction mechanic like the one in New Vegas would work for Wasteland 2. If you wear a certain factions uniform it would work for a disguise. Problem is that is a lot of shit to code into the game. Then they would have to go through and rework dialog and maybe even add more quest to the game to change outcomes even more so. More cash would be required. Thankfully Wasteland 2 is selling fairly well...

    Think about the scope of the game. You are examining a small portion of the game compared to the entirety of Fallout. Not a fair comparison. That is why people come to the defense of Wasteland 2, a game which isn't even talked about that much on here. The Wasteland 2 forum is about as dead as the rest of this place is. No one is white knighting the game. It's the reasoning behind the comments. Frankly I never judge a RPG until after the 20th hour. It's a rule I follow. If it doesn't appeal to me by hour 10 in the slightest I will drop it and maybe try to pick it up later. When I hear people quit the game because of twisted logic it irks me since the reasons seem so flawed. Of course your reasons are your own so thats cool.

    Its like, do you even RPG dude? ;)

    Don't tell me your favorite RPG is Fallout 3 or something....

    Wasteland 2 is a different breed of RPG. It's like a X-Com lite mixed with Fallout. If they add grenades and aimed shots the tactical side would truly rock. I always used aimed shots to cripple legs in Fallout. How else do you slow down Deathclaws? The eyes? Bah! It's a shame Wasteland 2 doesn't have that. I still won't stop playing the game a few hours into it no matter what I think. I know my opinion of the game wouldn't be worth shit. That is my opinion of course. I won't try to force that onto anyone.

    :ok:

    PS. How long before Deathclaws and other Fallout stuff are modded in?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    I am not sure what the definition of an RPG is, but I would not think there is any limit to the number of characters you control in an RPG. I think the word character is an important one also.

    In Age of Empires you might control 100 axe men. They would be referred to as units. Just an item. An item that serves a strategic and tactical purpose, nothing more.
    If each of the axe men, had distinct personality, looks and characteristics. We would get close to the roleplaying elements.
    The units in Age of Empires would have to evolve beyond an Item, a tool before it would more in the direction of an RPG.

    A game like Crusader Kings is both a strategy game like Age of Empires, but player seem to be more of an RPG character put into a strategy game inhabited with other characters that are put into a strategy game.

    At least that is my idea about it. It is an interesting question.
     
  6. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    The Den
    If you have played all the content before the Den, I would very much say that you critique could matter just as much as someone who had finished the whole thing.
    You have had time the experience what the graphics bring to the game.
    You have had time with the inventory and the items.
    You have had time to experience questing, dialog, story, bits of the main story quest line.
    You have had time to experience talking heads.
    You have had time to experience vastly contrasting locations, technology, living conditions, ideologies.
    If you played until the Den, and you are disappointed in every step of the way, I could almost with certainty say, that your experience would not get any better if you finished the game.

    I grant you, the Den is a tad short, if you had played until Vault city right after the Den, and spoken to the key people in Vault City. I would 100% agree with myself.
    But until the Den, you have experienced the major cornerstones in a game, Graphics, sound, music. The overall feel of the gameplay. And from that, I would take all your critique 100% seriously.

    The only thing i see improving for the full playthrough, is getting in use with all the things that bother you.
    I tried to play Dark Souls, I hated it. I tried again and i hated it. I tried a thrid time and hated it. Then I had a close friend starting to play the game, he did not like it that much either, but he gave me some tips and tricks how to endure it.
    So I tried a fourth time, and got with much pain through the whole thing. I got used to it, like a bad smell. And the game seemed alright. But in the end, it was just a let down.
    (I don't want to say nothing bad about Dark Souls, it's a fucking cool game, it was just not made for me.)

    I have played over 20 hours of Wasteland 2 now.
    This thread have had me get going further into the game
    This is like therapy and it helps.
    I am curious about the game, I want with all my heart for it to be an awesome game, but I just don't see it.


    Me and RPG games.
    So my gaming started on PC DOS and SEGA master system
    Prince of persia, Xcom. Sonic, Mickey mouse and so on.
    Then the SNES. Donkey Kong, Mortal kombat....

    Then came the Microsoft PC
    Stuff like Duke Nuke em, Quake, command and conquer. I liked that stuff. I had never played an RPG before.
    But I got a demo of this game called Diablo. It blew my socks off. So I called around game stores, to see if I could get a cheaper used copy, and I was in luck. Diablo became in instant favorite.

    Fallout(1997)
    I remember reading a game magazine, and me and my brother looked at this game, Fallout. I had no idea what the fuck it was about, I just remember a very distinct art style.
    One day, my brother came home, and said: Want to play some Fallout?
    I must have been 9-10 years old at that time.
    We installed the game, made our character, and had no idea what we were doing. But we were so into it.
    At that time I did not even realise what i was playing. It was just this really interesting thing.
    Fallout an instant favorite with me.

    We finished Fallout. Got our hands on Fallout 2, again the game was just brilliant.
    That was my introduction to RPG games, a new favorite genre of mine.

    Then I read about Fallout Tactics for the PC. It sounded sort of odd. So I got a demo of it, and was suprised a relived that my beloved Fallout was treated well, an exciting new game that replaced the RPG elements from the first two games with action, and replaced the action from the first to games with RPG elements.
    When I saw a let's play I wasteland 1, I thought; oh cool, Fallout Tactics is just a modern version of wasteland.

    Then one day, my gaming magazine came with a demo disc with just 1 demo on it. Arcanum. So I installed this Arcanum game, not knowing what it was. I was some dude walking around a blimp crash, I was imidiately hooked and could not wait to get my hands on the full game, beacuse i knew this would be another amazing RPG, and it was very exciting that it was something else than Fallout.

    It seemed there was a blackout period between Arcanum and Fallout 3, where I did not experience any super duper RPG games.

    S.T.A.L.K.E.R
    I played S.T.A.L.K.E.R, despite my gaming magazine giving it a negative review. I played STALKER, and i was fall in love. I have never loved something that scared me that much.

    Fallout 3 - Vegas
    I saw Fallout 3 was announced. A new company, completely new ideas. I got very very suspicious. But still, I could not wait for this game.
    Fallout 3 finaly came, and just like wasteland 2, I was a bit confused. I din't really like, it was all kinds of alright. But it was fun.
    Fallout New Vegas came out, it seemed like it was a more clever game than Fallout 3, but something was off.


    Primordia
    in 2012, I saw a screenshot on steam, for a game called Primordia. The art style looked interesting.
    I got the game, and it was love at first site.


    Other stuff
    I am blanking right now on what else in the RPG genre i might have played.

    I played Dragon Age 1, liked it.
    I played Mass Effect 1, loved it. Mass Effect 2, just alright. Mass Effect 3, so bored I could not finish it.
    I have played through the 2 recent Shadow Run games. A really cool universe. The game itself, seem sort of short on development money and time. Good game.
    I have played the first Dark Souls. That game have me confused. It's both awesome and terrible.

    I have tried to play Baldurs Gate, it seems like a cool game. But the fault is with me here, and I did not finish it.
    I have tried Planescape: Torment. This one seems really cool. But again the fault is with me and I have not finished it.

    I tried Divinity: Original sin. I seems to have big issues with tone, It feels very tedious and just plain uninteresting and boring.

    I have tried the Beta of Underail. It seems promosing, and I will definetly pickup the full version.
    The graphics are bit of a turn-off, but it seem they do the most with the graphics and I understand the choice of graphics.

    ps. I hope people mod something else than Fallout things. Something new and exciting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  7. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    So what?
    you didn't played WL2 long enough to write critic about WL2.
    that's enough proof to judge your critique is worthless.

    well.. that's enough proof for me to think your whole opinion is worthless for me.
     
  8. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    I am not going to reply to any more of your posts in this thread.

    You never back up anything you say. You never bring any insight to the discussion.
    You talk smack about me, and every time you get defeated, you move on to something off topic and talk smack there.
    You misrepresent what I say. Take what I say out of context and twist it as much to suit your angry logic.
    You must learn that this discussion is not about a brawl between Fallout fanboys and Wasteland fanboys.
    You must learn that people have different opinions, and the far out sci-fi concept that is;different opinions is okay. : )
     
  9. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Dedman oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Soldat I can say that you have decent taste in games at the very least. They resemble my own kinda. So I can't say you are ignorant on the subject, since you have played a few of the better games in the genre. My hope was that your first experience with RPG's wasn't Fallout 3 lol! I am curious where you are in the game? I also hope they mod more than just Fallout stuff. I hope the mod tools are easy enough to use because I hope to do some modding as well. I suppose if you have given the game that much time you have given it a fair chance. I'm not one of those guys that defends Final Fantasy 13 by saying "But it gets good 60 hours in!" ...

    Divinity: Original Sin's main strength is the combat and exploration. You have to overlook the tone to enjoy it. It's not a storyfag game as RPGcodex would say. Shadowrun is crowdfunded like Wasteland 2 hence the budget issues, which was kinda my point. You may be expecting these games to live up to the classics, and in many cases they do, but Unity isn't the best in some respects.

    All I can say is maybe the game isn't right for you if it still hasn't grabbed you. I still can't speak too much about it personally since I can't play it right now due to internet issues, otherwise I would give better advice. From everything I hear California is like a whole different game. I wish they started strong off the bat personally. I still think given an update or two the game will shine.
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    It's just a breeze. You should have been here with all the F3 lovers trying to tell us how bad we are for hating on F3 and such. Those where the days!
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Emperor

    Emperor Simplesmente Rajuma

    393
    Aug 4, 2013
    Hmm, 20h in the game should be enough but I suggest you to play at least one major quest in California, probably there the game should give you everything. I agree with the others that you need to play at least the half or more of the game to really judge it, since some games really have some twist near the end that can change your view. ( Like Spec Ops: The Line, a game which you really need to play all the way to the end or you will think that is just a generic shooter with a generic story, which is not although it plays like one)

    I recommend to you play Planescape Torment all the way to the end, the story and dialogue is worth it.

    Also, since you have a taste in games similar to mine and I'm looking for new games to play, I searched your name up on Steam and this came out http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197962022042

    Now, I'm not accusing you but if this guy is really you, you lied to us that you played 20h of the game and the negative review of Wasteland 2 that this guy gave is exactly like your first posts on this thread ( when you didn't make bullet points or reason for your statements). The guy even tell that his not going to make a full review and the reader just need to take his word for it.
     
  12. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Dedman oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Damn. That is pretty funny. Nice detective work. One hour in D:OS and 11 in Wasteland 2. Maybe Rpg's aren't his style? Not seeing very many on that playlist at the very least. Lots of shooters and strategy games. Xenonauts is pretty fun, I've been playing it. That is interesting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  13. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I don't believe he really played 20 hours for WL2.
    because he didn't mention anything about WL2 except for very first part of plot and RMS.
    and still, it's not enough because I spent 60 hour for Arizona.


    you didn't finished all those games, then it's not worthy to metioning these games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    I have the GOG version of the game, and then one of my steam friends, who backed the game, got an extra steam key of the game for backing the game or something. The GOG version and the steam version seem to be the exact same gamefiles, the save games are compatible and occupy the same folder.
    Man this is really creppy.

    17Z1qY1.png

    I can film a stopwatch while playing the GOG version in the future.

    qsMGpdl.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  15. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    Do I need to take photos of my hard copies of Fallout, arcanum and what not?
    But it is nice being told that I just imagined being passionate about the RPG experience I have had since childhood on PC.
    And it is nice being told that having an open mind to what video games offer in general, makes you not eligible to play an RPG video game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  16. Generic Dude 2.0

    Generic Dude 2.0 First time out of the vault

    29
    Apr 19, 2010
    Hey, Soldatmesteren, is it Rich Evans dressed as Lucas on your Steam avatar?
     
  17. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    It sure is : )
     
  18. mandala

    mandala It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    May 5, 2006
    This.
    I had big expectations for this game. Then I played it for a few hours. Meh...
    It all looks a bit amateur and unpolished, I was expecting something a lot better. Seems to me a lot of people aren't criticizing the game more because they like the developers and maybe were kickstarter supporters.
    I want this game genre to blossom but I won't lie.

    For me Fallout tactics > wasteland 2
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Yes. As long as there's proper attribute system, backstory, scripted interactions with objects and perhaps inventory screen for each of your troops, I'd call it a monstrous RPG! :smile:
     
  20. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    WAIT, what???? There's a second area in Shady Sands in Fallout 1????
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1