Wasteland 2 released!

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by WorstUsernameEver, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I think Arcanum's combat isn't that bad especially compare with Fallout.
    actually, while it's flawed much as Fallout, it certainly have good system.
    I can use many gadget to change situation, I can use aimshot, lighting , etc.
    Arcanum isn't that bad compare to Fallout 1 and 2.
    I think combat of Fallout 1 and 2 are too much overated.
     
  2. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    Yeah, now I'm sure you're just a troll. How does any of what you just posted justify holding the combat in Wasteland 2 to a higher standard than virtually every classic CRPG? How does this justify holding the combat to a standard held by purely tactical games?

    What is your argument at this point, anyway? That Wasteland 2 should have been used a tactical game instead of an RPG because they dared to use the word Rangers and featured guns? Get real.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
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  3. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    If you bothered to read what I wrote instead of taking what I say out of context and misrepresenting my argument, you would know.

    In wasteland 2 you play as a military faction.
    The game constantly feature combat.
    Therefore, the developer should have put more effort into that huge chunk of the game, instead of; not at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
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  4. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    Arcanum should not get any praise for it's combat. And the game tend to force combat upon you, but there is nothing stopping you for running past a lot of it.
    The combat in Arcanum is still better Than wasteland 2 for reasons stated earlier. And also, if the combat in Arcanum is not that great, at least it can go very fast and will be over fast.
    Instead of the obnoxious playtime Wasteland 2 offers.
    Arcanums combat should by no means be used as an example how to do tactical combat very well.

    If you did not like the combat in Fallout Tactics, that is fine. But at least in Fallout Tactics, you had options, you could choose your aproach. If you found an arpoach to streamline you combat, that is your choice.
    And I will agree, it is not an easy task fo make great tacticle combat with firearms, because in essence, you just point the gun at something and fire.
    I am still baffled by the design choices in Wasteland 2
     
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  5. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    I read what you wrote, it's just nonsensical. Putting nonsense in the context of other nonsense is still nonsense.

    Fallout Tactics is a tactical combat game, Wasteland 2 is an RPG. Comparing the combat of an RPG to a tactical combat game, as though the RPG should have the same depth, makes no sense and IS an inherently unfair comparison. When you compare Wasteland 2 combat to that of other actual RPGs, WL2 has a ton of depth.

    If you didn't like it because you thought the encounter design was poor (ie the combats took too long) then that's really a different argument, isn't it?
     
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  6. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014

    It is clear you did not bother to read any of it, or did not bother to understand any of it. (I don't know what your 1st language is)
    Just saying things are nonesens and the other things are nonsense and that all of the things are nonsense,
    makes you come off as someone that can't read, can't understand or simply choose not to understand, to promote an opinion that is not grounded in anything, other than misinformation.
    If there is something you are confused by, point it out, so it can be clarified.

    So let me make it very easy and superficial for you to understand.
    If there is not put any substantial effort into making a big chunk of a game interesting, there will be issues.
    A big chunk of Wasteland 2 is combat, and there was not put a lot of effort into making it interesting.

    If you are making a video game, where any form of combat is not the focus, make the combat a seldom occurrence in the video game.
     
  7. mandala

    mandala It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    May 5, 2006
    I have played for a few hours now, reached highpool. And from what I have played in no way or form would I say wasteland 2 was an rpg if somebody asked me.
    No actual options in dialog, no choices, just go there and fetch something or kill someone, try to start the game with less skills in weapons and you are screwed, actually had to restart my game 4 times because my guys simply sucked without having a couple of points in guns. A true rpg wouldn't limit the player in that sense.
    That's why I made the comparison to fallout tactics.
    The graphics, the nauseating camera work, the "weak toy guns" all makes it look like a crude amateur game, not a game that took milions of dolars to make.
     
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  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    from what I can read though it seems that Wasteland 2s options in combat are relatively limited, what I am using as reference here is Jagged Alliance 2 which gave you quite a lot of options to play with.

    Just saying, I am not dissing on Wasteland 2s combat, if it gets the job done, great. But I guess it could use some improvements here and there. Another really good TB game out there is Silent Storm, even if the story is really not all to awesome, it has some very interesting turn based gameplay.
     
  9. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm are both tactical combat games, not RPGs. Of course they have deeper tactical combat.

    You know what I really dislike about Wasteland 2? You see all of these different settlements and towns in various stages of development. They have different challenges and cultures, but despite this being such a huge part of the game, the city management options are virtually nil! Sim City offered way better city management options than Wasteland 2. It seems to me that if you're going to have towns be such a big part of the game, you should make managing them interesting and fun. As things stand now, it almost feels like they didn't even want to make a city management game.

    And I've already explained to you why your standard for making this assessment is unreasonable. You're judging the combat as uninteresting when compared to a pure combat game, and ignoring the comparisons to other RPGs. It's not inXile's fault that you want to play a tactical game instead of a RPG.

    And you would be wrong. There are choices and options for different builds starting from the very first area of the game, in the Radio Tower. You can fight the bandits head on, or use dialog skills to avoid the combat. Or you can sneak around the flank and come through a fence to avoid the head-on assault. There are still more choices and branching paths in Ag Center, if you played through that area before reaching Highpool. There are tons of choices in the Rail Nomad camp.

    The dialog did take a step back from dialog trees, but there are still distinct options.

    As for starting over, the game manual warned you not to spread yourself too thin. Few RPGs not made by Bethesda let you master every skill.
     
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  10. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Well, he startd from "hey WL2 is hyped and I don't like it. so I think WL2 is sucks. if someone disagree with me, then he is a hyped Wasteland fanboy"
    so, there was nothing to discuss at all.
     
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  11. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    Yeah, I should have known better than to feed the trolls, but when I saw Fallout Tactics being mentioned like it was some kind of gold standard I got too irritated to use good judgement.
     
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  12. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014

    You didn't explain anything. You just say, this is nonsense. This is wrong. This is unreasonable because I say so. Without reading what the discussion is about and its details.

    I cannot make it anymore blatant for you, so you will just have to read this discussion thread.
     
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  13. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    I did explain it, sometimes using specific examples of in-game mechanics and situations. I don't know why you can't understand the argument I made. I guess, as you noted, you simply are not a very perceptive or analytical person.
     
  14. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    You have not brought any insight to the discussion at hand.
    Yes I am not a very perceptive or analytical person. That is why we are discussing some very broad and big game elements here... if you haven't noticed.

    This is turning into an MSN conversation, try to bring some insight, and have something to backup your statements, instead of agreeing with yourself upon what is right and wrong, then letting us about it.
    You have got to read what this discussion is about.
     
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  15. oxidize

    oxidize It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 18, 2012
    What makes Wasteland 2 an RPG and JA 2 not RPG?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
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  16. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    I would think that an RPG is about the characters and the story. It uses in depths characters to tell a story.
    Jagged alliance uses action/combat to tell a story.



    Earlier we had a similar question, but with Age of Empires instead.
    My attempt to answer it was:
    "I am not sure what the definition of an RPG is, but I would not think there is any limit to the number of characters you control in an RPG. I think the word character is an important one also.

    In Age of Empires you might control 100 axe men. They would be referred to as units. Just an item. An item that serves a strategic and tactical purpose, nothing more.
    If each of the axe men, had distinct personality, looks and characteristics. We would get close to the roleplaying elements.
    The units in Age of Empires would have to evolve beyond an Item, a tool before it would more in the direction of an RPG.

    A game like Crusader Kings is both a strategy game like Age of Empires, but player seem to be more of an RPG character put into a strategy game inhabited with other characters that are put into a strategy game.

    At least that is my idea about it. It is an interesting question."


     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  17. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Dedman oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    You can't say he hasn't brought any insight into the conversation. He has brought up very good points that you refuse to acknowledge because you are too dense to understand. It's borderline trollish since you dismiss others arguments due to not even understanding the conversation and dodgy rational.

    W2 is not a tactical combat game like Fallout Tactics. It's a RPG that has tactical combat. I can't believe you actually praised Tactics writing. Oh Tactics writing is on point, but Wasteland 2 is worse? I can't see how that is even humanely possible. Maybe you were able to overlook the raping of the lore, with some of the most poorly written shit I've seen (yes even worse than D:OS), but I couldn't. Praise Tactics for it's combat sure. Not the writing. That makes your opinion seem rather shit honestly. But I have never beat Fallout Tactics so you will have to just take my word for that. Maybe the writing got better. :V

    To think people are defending Tactics representation of weapons is even more outrageous. Fallout was supposed to be an alternate universe. Instead Microforte bastardized the lore and tossed real world guns in and said fuck it. So now W2 is criticized for not being fucked up like Tactics? The calibers were different. The weapons were slightly similar to ours, but the course of history diverted sometime during the 50's. W2 is the same way, albeit from a different time period split. I was part of the veterans community that is listed in the W2 credits. Myself and others veterans gave our input on the game, and I do believe they took some of our suggestions, regretfully not as much as I would have liked, but I don't expect everything to be addressed right off the bat.

    So we have great praise for the bastard stepchild of the Fallout series. Some used to call it Fallout Craptics, which I find rather childish, but it is generally regarded as the lesser of the 3 original Fallout games. The levels are sooooo open since the only thing you do on them is kill every fucking guy on the screen with no quests aside from rescuing others dudes you don't kill. Sure you can climb ladders and snipe people every now and again. I would expect a purely tactical game to do that. Of course more tactical options would be great, but some of this logic is flawed.

    We have people saying Wasteland 2 isn't even a RPG now? Yeah I'm not sure this conversation is going anywhere. :crazy:
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
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  18. mandala

    mandala It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    May 5, 2006
    I meant that the arms in w2 don't sound convincing at all, the sounds are bad, you can barely notice the graphical differences in them but that happens with a lot more stuff, characters faces etc.
    W2 promised a lot and it failed for me, I am just disappointed. I don't understand why people are calling me a troll because I have a different opinion from them?
     
  19. oxidize

    oxidize It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 18, 2012
    3 what? What 3 greats?
     
  20. Soldatmesteren

    Soldatmesteren First time out of the vault

    51
    Sep 24, 2014
    I cannot disagree or agree with arguments that have not even been made.

    You are wrong
    What you say is gibberish

    That is not arguments.