Come and see... the live show of a war going on

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Gonzalez, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign WHO DO YOU THINK THAT IS THERE? Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Putin had one of his detractors assassinated in front of the fucking Kremlin. It is blatantly obvious. Yes, Russia is acting rather bad right now. Similar things have happened in the United States, but we tend to do our crooked shit a little less obvious most of the time.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Honestly, NATO, and the US have demonstrated the best solution to a united world at this point in time. We work together, we know eachothers weapon systems and capabilities well enough. The U.S. overall has the best history in regards to taking care of its allies in regards to Taiwan, Japan, the Saudis (well mabe thanks to obamnuts not so much), S. Korea, etc, etc. We all knew how capable the Warsaw pact was, more like the USSR leeching off of its neighbors.

    As Tagz has pointed out, why do countries like Russia and China continue to fight the inevtiable future, and that future is NATO is the strongest force out there PERIOD. NATO is not and is NEVER going to go away. Why not join NATO? Pride, Hubris, pure stubborness? This world is no longer the racist, darwinian eugenics obssessed world of the turn of the early 20th century. We have been edging ever closer to a world where its not might makes right. Its about soft, not hard power. Its about how nations can make their citizens happy and increase their peoples access to a better standard of living. Its about how you have a responsibility to your allies and making sure you do not disappoint them. Standing in the world is about how effective and how many allies you have, not the amount of nuclear warheads you possess that clearly will never be used. Its not about how many fucking tanks and rockets you can parade down the central square, its about how you let your people know that military solutions is never the only option. It is absolutely amazing how liberal America is right now. Our police, military and government establishments have been under ever more increasing scrutiny, always under attack. Yet we still manage to keep our commitments to our friends.

    Its not the americas fault that the rest of the world loves our culture, our movies, our freedom, etc. So many nations are still stuck in the fucking past, oppressing their peoples because of their religion, sexuality, gender, you name it. They hate America because their own people like what we are allowed to do here and their whack job leadership doesn't believe that american values is good for them.

    Honestly, lets face it, since the beginning fo fucking time itself, their have been leaders and followers. Its the LEADERS job to maintain order. Its his job to make the decisions that others cannot or will not make. It is the leader that hears the insights from the lessers yet ultimately makes the decisions. I know its hard to hear but NATO at this point is clearly THE LEADER. This leader, has done a pretty good fucking job in mainting nations that have cultural diversity. Nations where religious, ethnic, sexual, etc, freedoms are valued and accepted. This leader has also made sure that their nations have had pretty high standards of living. Some of the usuall suspects would stop measuring how long their dicks were and do whats right for the world as a whole, we would have a lot less competitions, war, strife you name it.

    Any leader that would sarifice their peoples happiness because of stubborn pride really unfit to lead. Any leader that continues to divide the world simply because of insignificant gains is unfit to lead. We need to march toward a world fully united, not one that is continually divided by asinine reasons.

    Figured I would add something more.

    My prior posts have pointed out the west doesn't have a clean history. But think about it? Nobody really does. History is funny that way. However, its a waste if we are going to let the past create a situation where global unity is never going to be achieved, or even worked on. Where in certain nations people live great yet in other nations peoples lives suck balls. Are we going to just cite the past and let folks like Putin start civil wars instead of just backing the fuck down and cooperating with an organisation that is CLEARLY more powerful than Russia. The world would CLEARLY be more stable if the permanent security council worked as one instead of treating the myriad smaller nations like pieces on a game board, weapons to throw at one another. As I said, times have changed, its time for tyrants to change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    DarkCorp, I understand you think your nation is entitled to rule the world, forcefully shoving it's culture and values on everybody, and that if anyone disagrees with that is only stopping progress.

    In the meantime, is this so hard to understand? Is anyone familiar with the concept of empathy? Is the concept of thinking like if you were someone else, putting yourself in someone elses shoes, so alien to you?:



     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  4. THE ONLY PERSON ENTITLED TO RULING THE PLANET IS ME.


    *naked bleeding meth bathtub vomit gurgle


    BTW, even if you were qualified to run the world more than anyone else objectively aswell as in the abstract to steer humanity in the best course for the species itself...


    You would still have to torture assholes because people are fucking cunts.

    *drunk and might regret this later, but feels like saying it in the moment so fuck your judgements and hopelessly fragmented counter arguments that have no cohesive meanings, and are just chemical regurgitations of data that try to make you feel important and knowledgeable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2015
  5. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
  6. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    Yep. You're right - invasion and annexation of Crimea is not a bad thing. I mean, protecting Russian nationals, right? Evil Right Sector, right? Fascist Kiev, right?

    Killing Boris Nemtsov isn't a bad thing either - he was a CIA agent, clearly. And, no, it wasn't Putin that killed him, it was the SBU, on personal orders from Obama's puppet Poroshenko, to make Putin look bad. Crimean invasion and MH17 clearly didn't the job well enough. Makes so much sense!

    Can you name me something positive from Putin's regime since the 're-election' (using this term lightly) of 2012? Outside of a false sense of imperialism and 'we gonna kick your fucking NATO ass! Kill the hohols, nuke the USA!' chants that unify the Russian people?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The other side of the medal though is terrorism, poverty and violence as we force down our culture and our values down the throats of others. There is a reason when some people talk about western imperialism. I am pretty sure that every nation in the past had the exact same reasons like we have today. When the Brits, French or Germans invaded India or Africa for colonies they wanted to educate and teach them our values. The ancient greek thought about everyone to be savages, "barbarians" that had to be guided by their culture. We feel today supperior and that's where most of the issues start.

    I think it is fair to say that the Cold War, was a real war. One with victims and of course one with battlefields. Even the mass of nuclear tests could be seen as a part of it, no one wanted to use them in battle so they did their tests. A demonstration. And it is also rather obvious who won the Cold War, the NATO. But like with every war there is also a lot of propaganda, on both sides. And we should not forget that winners always love to tell the story at least somewhat in their favour. I think by now most of us know that the history of Germany is not exactly like what people told us right after 1945. Not every German was a nazi and not every German was a criminal. Like always there is alot of stories to tell here and there are many individual characters that can't be simply thrown in either one or the other direction. Like John Rabe, who was a believer in the Nazi idelogy at some point or at least realtively close to the idea and yet he did his best to help the Chinese civilians survive the Japanese attack. And there are many of such characters, even inside the German military. So it is fair to say that if we can (and should) differentiate in such an inhuman system like the third Reich, why can't we do the same with Russia? Or the Soviet Union for that matter. The USA isn't "evil" but neither is Russia or any other nation really. Nations can never be good or evil. They are not personalities or entities.

    The NATO are not the good guys and the Warsaw Pact wasn't the empire of evil.



    This whole Russia vs. US is really turning out to become a parody. I swear.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  8. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Funny I have not heard the story about how we force other nation to watch Teminator or eat apple pie, or you know, have things like rights. I am sure its just the evil U.S. suggesting to folks elswhere that they should not be humiliated or killed for something like religion or sexual orienation or gender. Naw, woman in the ME would love to be repressed if it weren't for our dirty western ideas like equal rights. Nor do folks naturally complain about an oppressive religious theocracy. Damn Americans should shut their borders tight and not let ideas even get out.

    All sarcasm aside, many folks actually don't hate america or americans. A lot of it comes from an oppressive regime that often would rather fight to the death than compromise. This is the definition of being stubborn.

    Is it that hard to imagine where the permanent security council worked together instead of butting heads all the time? All we got from the cold war proxy fight was the ruination of the smaller nations. How many lives could have been saved if America had not supported psychos ONLY, because they hated communism. Now imagine if Putin was smart and realised he could have handled things peaceully. The Ukraine wanted to join the EU, let them. Using military force only further alienates Ukranians from Russia.
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Most people hate Americans for their completely self centered attitudes where they think they represent western culture and freedom while stubbornly rejecting a lot of alternate ideas and being as a rule extremely opinionated and partisan.

    I'll say every culture is deeply flawed and I myself dislike the culture of my country, but Americans are the ones who like to flaunt theirs the most.
     
  10. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    Just to give one example, my country had to pass a law for Argnetine movies not to be withdrawn from theathers much earlier than hollywood ones, even when national films did better at the box office than its US counterparts, just because the companies that ran the theatres had ties with hollywood. You see, protecionism isnt a bad thing, the US did it, many european countries did it. The US is big and steamrolls other countries economies and societies if you let them. What you call progress is cultural penetration.

    Take my country fot example, it followed every recipe the IMF threw at us, in hopes it would improve our economy, instead it left it in ruins. And did the IMF pulled us out of that ruin? No, we had to pull ourselves out, and now we are much better off being close to Russia and China. When you have lived trough that and seen it happen then it's hard to argue with it.
     
  11. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    That's funny, since you (and Gonzales) are the ones that brought it up. A discussion about Russia suddenly turned into the wrongdoings of NATO; as if Obama is directly responsible for Putin ruining his country's economy and putting troops in East Ukraine.
     
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Both sides tend to ignore the more questionable sides of their country and act like theirs is the best. So really both sides are laughable.
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You would be surprised, because actually it's more about the bombs, drones, military bases/troops deployed all around the world and the economical and political preassure on their nations that is really making people angry. Seriously, no ones here really depressed about Coca Cola, MC Donalds or the next Hollywood-block-buster movie, albeit if you see what companies like Coca Cola are doing in South America or India with the local farmers for example than it would not surprise you either. But if a stray bomb kills half of your family or if sanctions make your life pretty misserable (see the history of Cuba as best example) than is it REALLY(!) that hard to comprehend where the hate is coming from? And this is really not only tied to the US in particular, they are simply the biggest player right now, but 100 years ago it was the British Empire, and the Soviets had their issues in occupied areas as well. Hell, most of eastern Europe still hates them, so much even that they have no issue to bow to the US.


    That's what it basically is. US vs Russia with Europe making every possible mistake, out of the idea that Russia is the evil player here. There is a very one sided coverage. And that is not simply my opinion, Dirk Müller, A.D. Kujat former Nato General, Gabriele Krone-Schmalz and many more, they are not necessary Russian friendly but simply a critical opinion with every side.
     
  14. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Yeah, Noam's been doing his thing for some 50 years in the mainstream.

    Who's the Russian Noam Chomsky, and which gulag did he perish in?
     
  15. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    Maybe you should ask him that question. In the meantime let me tell you that the fact Chomsky is an american speaks very well of americans and restores my hope in them, that they are not all imperialist asholes, but there is a lot of intelligent people there too. Secondly the fact that there is no Russian counterpart of him (that we know of) doesnt invalidates anything he says in the least.

    I think americans have a big misconception of themselves, they think they spread democracy and american way of life trough the world, and the truth is that they exploit under developed countries to support their own way of life. Rather than spreading the wealth they keep it for themselves, and then they have to build walls around them to keep people from the same under developed nations they exploit from entering their nation and having acces to the same way of life they are so proud of.

    The general oppinion of this is that if they don't do well is because of their own fault. And I think that's true, it's about time under developed nations stop letting themselves be robed of their wealth and use it to start developing their own nations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  16. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Blaming all the problems of Latin America on the US is very short sighted too. Mostly because in general Latin America is a bubbling cesspool of corruption and voluntary mediocrity and ignorance.
     
  17. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    Exactly those problems allow the wealth to be taken away from them. If there were no corruption and people were smarter, they would not so willingly allow their wealth to be taken from them. It is not the US fault that they take our wealth away from us, why shouldn't they, it's our fault that we let them.

    So yes, I couldn't agree with you more, it's south america's fault, and ignorance and cortuption are the tools that allow it.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Fair enough I guess, but the role super powers (not just the US mind you) play in such a situation shouldn't be forgoten either. I mean let us be fair the US has meddled a lot in South American politics out of fear from a Soviet dominance which never happend, infact the Sovets had very little interest in South America at that point. But the Soviets made the same mistakes in some African states. So while they are not the source of the coruption and all the issues, they sure have done a lot to exploit the situation.
     
  19. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Latin America is in the state it deserves to be. Specially Colombia, my country.
     
  20. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    And this is exactly what I am talking about. If the superpowers would stop fucking with eachother using the smaller nations as proxies, a lot of damage could have been avoided. If Putin would think about the greater good instead of adding an extra insignificant 3 inches to his cock, a lot of folks in Ukraine would not be dead. But no, Putin wants a Russia that would be strong like old soviet union.

    Agreed that sucks, but its not necesarily an american secret attempt to brainwash argentinians either. Those companies can be boycotted and shut down as well. Argentinians can just stop seeing movies from those theatres. Unless we got some kind of conspiracy type thing where America says it will drop bombs or something if that happens.

    It depends on the nation and what happened. Cuba, Vietnam, Iran for example have all had bad relations with the U.S. All three countries chose the wrong side and they lost. Shit happens. The PRC chose right, so they don't have as much bullshit thrown their way. Its politics and human nature, any change to something like that requires the 'vanquished', so to speak, to make genuine attempts at reconcilliation. Whats the point of having allies when its ok to switch allegiances on the fly whenever it suits a nations purpose. Taiwan, Japan, the Saudis, S. Korea, those nations have historically been U.S. allies and have reaped the benefits. The ME on the other hand is a bit more complex. We have commiments to our saudi allies, who, happen to be Sunnis. Their friends also happen to be majority sunnis. Does that mean we might use our military to influence things slightly in their favor? Sure. It also doesn't help that another major player in the region who happens to threaten death to america and israel on a daily basis is Shia, a competitor to our sunni allies. As explained above, this exactly how and why alliances are sought after in the first damned place. However, its not too late to change, but wait, oh yeah, this leads to the next part.

    Seriously, whats up with this? Co-operation and open dialogue is somehow equated to some kind of brutal assfucking? Is the PRC being brutally assfucked right now? Again, what about the U.S. allies I have stated above? However, when a nation continually threatens another with being wiped from the earth, its natural that said nation making such statements would not be getting good responses (Iran).

    This is sounding alarmingly like some bleeding heart liberal rant but I am giving benefit of doubt. Immigration is not a simple issue but applying to immigrate to any nation, like the U.S., is never easy. Why you ask, because people like coming here (and please don't say its more american boasting because we do have a lot of immigrants and yes, they came here because of the possibilites). Should we just throw caution to the fucking wind and just open the floodgates without any type of regulatory system in place? The negativity about illegal immigration is not so much about racism, as the liberals would have you believe. Its about making sure a system works. Before folks can come into this country, they need to have a sponsor. This is because most immigrants need time to settle down, need financial assistance as they look for a job in their new home nation. They need folks who can translate and offer services lest they be taken advantage of by the shadier aspects of society. This takes TIME.

    Second, a lot of americans do not believe its ok to shove their culture onto others. However, there will be biases. Women for example, used to freedom in the united states, are not going to be very fucking happy about our country giving aid to another nation that oppresses their women. Now does it happen in the case of the saudis? Yes. But that is because the saudis have been one of the first islamic nations that were ok with co-operating with the U.S. Doesn't this serve as a shining example that we value our allies, even though they sometimes might have traditions that are alien to our own? We in the U.S., really hate bible thumping morons who believe their religion is the only good one and everyone elses sucks. Catholicism is just one example of religions drop in importance to the average american because of its backwardass way of thinking and in-ability to adapt. Lots of other denominations as well have had to change with the times because its only natural in such a information rich world. Same with another thing called sexual preferance in this country. Intolerance to homosexuality iss slowly given way to a more enlightened way of thinking. The 'gays', also pay taxes and they too have an idea of who their countries gives support too.

    Has there been exploitation, a resounding YES. But how long are we going to beat a dead horse here? Hugo Chavez took an injustice that happened in the past and used it to deflect suggestions that he simply did not fulfill his promises. Mao once called the U.S. a worthless paper tiger. Mao probably said alot of other bad shit about the united states and vice versa as well. But the thing is, the chinese leadsership saw which directon the wind was blowing and hitched a ride instead of getting knocked the fuck down. Is it so much to ask the same for some other nations who are clearly hostile to the US?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015