Gun Control

DarkCorp said:
Yeah, europeans are different. You lack the asshole or cowboy culture that most folks associate with America. You are willing to put up with much more regulation for the sake of 'stability' whereas we value a more independent spirit, even if it costs us more in the end. You see this most prominently in issues like states and gun rights. At least in the past.
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It's not just "guns". Even in the United States guns have kinda become a sort of "cultural" thing rather recently. When you look at it historically the way weapons are treated today wasn't always like that. Just look at the NRA in particular which actually started as a group about advocating for gun safety and not "gun rights".

And believe it or not but most regulations - not all but most - are there to protect liberties. And not to limit them. Like regulations against child labour, or regarding work safety, labour laws, environmental regulstions and so on. Because without those most of the time ordinary people would face situations where they had no way to fight back. Like large companies simply dumbing their shit in the next river or things like that. Again I am not saying ALL regulations are great. But when you really look at why most of them exist? Then it is to protect your freedom. Form those that actually don't give a fuck about it. So you don't get poisoned by your food or cancer from some shit that someone left around you. Like imagine there was no regulation regarding radioctive waste. Oh the freedom!

I mean com on. The US is a modern society.

DarkCorp said:
This kind of often leftist liberal bullshit is why America is so much more different tham Europe and why things that work over there will not work here.
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Possible. But I feel it is likely that it has a lot more to do with things like this :

 
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Obviously I am not arguing against regulations like food safety or illegal dumping. But let us not be intellectually dishonest and compare that to stupid regulations like banning guns cause they look scary or mandated critical race studies, this is just straw manning.

Europe to me, looks like it has happily accepted all the bad and stupid regulations, along with the good.
 
It's possible the NRA might get taken out or get their ass sued off. They have a number of lawsuits considered to be pretty strong against them. They tried to flee NY for Texas and were rejected and now they have to face the courts. Apparently the head of the NRA likes to go out yachting when there's a mass shooting in the states. Big if true.
 
But guns aren't going to be banned. And guns are not banned in europe either. We have in Europe very strong regulations which makes it well difficult to get guns - and expensive too. But I doubt this will become the case for all of the united states. And those states that have tight laws well, I can only assume the people there support it. At least the majority. Or they would vote for different laws. It's not like you can't do anythin about it. All I know is that it's far more complicated than we both lay it out here. And I mean com on ... intellecutally dishonest? After you called european countries on the road to socialism? Anyway. I just think the fact that many improvements in the United States and I don't even mean any gun regulation not happing has more to do with a shit town of propaganda where people already believe the United States would become a Stalinist dictatorship if they implemented something like universal health care.
 
Are not CERTAIN guns banned though? Can you own a military style weapon in Germany? Is it true that even pump action shotguns are banned? Do you disagree that Germany and europe in general is much more regulated than the U.S.? In good and bad?

You got me on the socialism thing but its not really the point. My original and consistent point is that the U.S. and Europe are actually veeeeeery different, both in culture and mind set and that is why what works in europe will not here.
 
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Honestly fuck guns and any issues that come with them.
We need to worry about education, healthcare and infrastructure more than guns. In terms of foreign policy we need a counter to China's belt & road strategy if we want to stay relevant in a changing world. Guns are of least concern at the moment.
 
Education needs to move towards more specialisation rather rote memory and testing.

Infrastructure is mostly a state issue with the government involved on the fed funding side.

A good compromise would be to support a bill where the state can pay for life saving treatment that would normally bankrupt a family, or at least start exploratory discussions and research.
 
DarkCorp said:
Are not CERTAIN guns banned though?
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Yeah.

Can you own a military style weapon in Germany?
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No.

Is it true that even pump action shotguns are banned?
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Not as far as I know. Semi automatic shotgungs maybe? Anyway shotguns can be bought as long as you have a firearm certificate - which is difficult to get yeah :

Flinten - Langwaffen - Waffen Online Shop - Frankonia.de

Do you disagree that Germany and europe in general is much more regulated than the U.S.? In good and bad?
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Sure. I won't denny that. We definetly could do better without some regulations. But I don't think that's the point really.

You got me on the socialism thing but its not really the point. My original and consistent point is that the U.S. and Europe are actually veeeeeery different, both in culture and mind set and that is why what works in europe will not here.
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Of course there are differences. But what I am trying to say is that at the end of the day we are still people. And no one suggests to simply take something here and just slap it on the United States. But you do agree that countries can try to learn from each other. We Europeans certainly took over a lot of good things from the US over the years. Probably more than the US took from Europe.
 
We certainly agree about learning from each other.

While europe seems to go towards the U.S. way of thinking, liberalism has gained a lot of momentum here since the conservative america of the 50s and 60s.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
 
Most people mistake information against their arguments as a personal attack. While I often hit hard, it is not out of malice but to prove a point. The people here often do not fall into that category or learn or leave. I like it here.
 
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Morgan_ said:
Surprising as you seem more put together in conversation than a lot of people.
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Psychological issues come in many colours and forms. For me it's chronic depressions and anxiety. One of the reasons it's good that I don't onw a gun for example even though I would love to. Not because I am a danger to others ... but impulses you know pulling the trigger is easier than using a rope or knive. Anyway. Forums and conversations in forums don't cause isses for me. What's causing it for me is overextension and overstressing for example - among other issues but that would be to detailed. It got me two times in a hospital even.
 
I've said before somewhere that having actual civil service in schools or some sort of conscription that teaches people how to vote, how to pay and do taxes, how to get a loan or a grant, run for office, ect. Along with that scouts and firearms training.

The Swiss have a good system.
 
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