The FPS rpg, can it really work?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Cyratis, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. The_WitchDoctor

    The_WitchDoctor It Wandered In From the Wastes

    102
    Jun 8, 2015
    Couldn't even make it halfway through that video. Holy shit that was stupid.

    If somebody could automatically know whether they could or couldn't do said action, rolling a dice would be 100% irrelevant.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  2. LordAshur

    LordAshur Banned

    293
    Jul 18, 2015
    Deus Ex and STALKER are both very good examples that it can work. Stalker in particular, because the shooting itself was more fun and engaging than any actual shooter I ever played (particularly when it came to fighting human opponents). Far Cry 3 is as much an RPG as Assassin's Creed 2.
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Sorry, that I sound agressive. But in which way was Stalker an RPG? Let alone a good one? I mean you can for sure argue about Deus Ex - albeit it is also a shooter for me - but Stalker? It's a decent shooter, but RPG? I would like to hear how.
     
  4. LordAshur

    LordAshur Banned

    293
    Jul 18, 2015
    The weapons, armor and artifacts in Stalker serve the same purpose as the skill system and augmentations in Deus Ex. There are multiple approaches to situations, although stealth wasn't as much of a possibility when facing mutants, it was an option (albeit a hard one) when encountering human opponents. A number of quests with multiple solutions. The only way in which Stalker doesn't pass as an RPG game would be if your definition of an RPG outright demands the existence of skills or attributes which define your character (as it is for a lot of people).
     
  5. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    So, Kingpin: Life of Crime was an RPG, too, albeit a very linear one.
     
  6. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Pokeymans is an rpg exclusively in it's battle mechanics. Not on the main campaign itself (which tends to be just a long introduction to the mechanics, like with a lot of MP centric games).
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Sure, if the only definition of a car is to contain 4 wheels, than yeah, Stalker is an RPG. :yuck:

    Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to offend anyone, but seriously regardless of the quality Stalker has as game, it really is only scratching on the surface of RPGs here. It's mechanics are not more RPG than CoD or similar games that utilize a few of the traditional RPG mechanics. As said, it is a very decent shooter, with an interesting story. But it's RPG mechanics are almost not there. Even the artifacts play only a rather miniscule role in the game, as you can beat the game without it and not suffer any real cosequences.
     
  8. LordAshur

    LordAshur Banned

    293
    Jul 18, 2015
    No one will get offended because you have a different opinion on a game :)

    Or at least I hope so.

    I define Stalker as an RPG because I found myself in more actual role-playing situations with it than I did in many games which are by general consensus RPGs. As I said, I know most people have a different view of what "RPG" means. For some, it's any game which allows role-playing, for some it's a game which is based upon a system of skills and attributes, and for some it's a rocket launcher.
     
  9. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Um... Have you HEARD of the Bethesda forums? Seriously, they exist! And the people there.....
     
  10. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Fallout 3 fanboys are the most fickle, insecure, over agressive sacks of turds. We have a fame for being hateful, but those kids just burst with bile at any sign of disent.
     
  11. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Just imagine... there will in the not-too-distant future be a DIVIDE between the FO3 fanboys and the FO4 fanboys, and ONE of them will actually look a little bit reasonable by comparison...

    Terrifying prospect, isn't it?

    As for my take on the upcoming FO4.... eh. A good friend who knows how much I adore the series asked me about my "anticipation" for it, citing that I MUST be excited, which really kinda surprised me. Me? Excited about the next BETHESDA outing??? No, not really. That being said, some of the features DO look cool. Better graphics is always a plus. It looks less wonky and flobby (but you can also TELL that they pruned the sequences you could watch, so it's probably not much less sillier than the Gamebryo physics) than its predecessor. And FINALLY they've learned what crafting is supposed to be like.

    But still... Instant base/town creation. Instant crafting. You can't tell WHAT your character is going to say because the dialog wheel just sums it up in 2 or so words every time. It's STILL going to depict an East Coast location that's incredibly urban and very desolate and ruined despite 200+ years of recovery having taken place. Other qualms I KNOW are going to be there, but plenty of stuff I DON'T know about. So am I excited about it? Fuck no. But I am at least a tiny bit curious. Like I (roughly) said on the youtube video of the game's E3 trailer, "Bethesda is really good at designing hotdogs dangling from a stick, but it remains to be seen if the treadmill is going to be any good."

    I have my doubts, of course.

    Also they "improved upon" FO3 in many ways by adopting improvements Obsidian implemented in FONV, but good ol' Toddy dodged that every time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    But I think we can all agree that an element that ANY game of any genre benefits from is Turret sections, everyone loves turret sections. I sure am glade we now get Vertibird turret sections, because one thing we always think about with Fallout is Vertibird Turret Sections.
     
  13. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Turret sections? What are you talking about? All I saw was the new anti-gravity dog boots!
     
  14. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Deus Ex was the closest an FPS, could get to an in-depth RPG experience. It was very satisfying but far from ideal.

    Travel time is a big factor considering gameplay changes dramatically between FPS/TPS and over the head/3/4 ISO. The time it takes to climb a rope or sneak through an area to get to the next, can be avoided often because a simple click of an option will suffice.

    Cover mechanics work the same way. In the FPS/TPS example, its important to physically make sure not even an inch of you is showing where as in the alternative, you run behind cover and the game will auto assign you a cover bonus, give or take if crouching/prone is a present option.

    Finding a prone enemy that blends in th the background is much more annoying as opposed to a simple fog or no fog of war/LOS.
     
  15. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    He means CoD perk like situations or single player epicz moments when your on rails and shooting shit as a gunner on whatever vehicle.
     
  16. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    I actually like turret missions; and I like why they are [generally] used; as a break from the regular gameplay.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RVWrGDe94
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  17. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    That is a strange question to ask in such a rethoric "I bet you can't answer it"-manner... :S
    Mount and Blade is full of role-play, it is even more sandboxy than most games brag to be

    1. Strict character creation, you create a character that you must specialize from the beginning. This is daunting to a noob to it, such as a regular Fallout-player, who expects to balance all skills equally - especially later in the game. Here, forget about that - you will specialize because nobody can do everything. You also design your own face, with the same detail as in Oblivion - except less dumb looking.
    2. Experience, killing and solving quests gives you experience, similar to Fallout, in that single enemies give a small ammount, while solving quests give a big ammount.
    3. Quests, both Fed-Ex quests and combat quests, as well as more complex prison-breaks and such, these are all "randomized". There are also hidden quests, every here and there you'll find usurpers to other thrones, aiding them will start questlines of civil war and rebellion in certain kingdoms.

    Most importantly, player choice for his/her own fate - do you want to serve a King loyally, and through him earn land and authority? Maybe you want to pretend to serve the king, only to gain power, and then turn it against him? Maybe you want none of that, and to just ride the lands, aiding farmers and such - villages offer quests, Fed-Ex types, as well as defense from banditry. Hell, BE the bandit! Like in Fallout, being an active outlaw is generally a bad idea, but there's nothing stopping you.
    It also has some strong rpg-elements I miss in other rpgs, for example, it takes passage of time seriously - there are "skill books" in the game, but they sure don't take *a moment* to read, not even a day - but many, several days. It requires real patience to get favorite swords and armors and such, and it requires pisssloads of in-game money, which you must quest your ass off to earn. Levelling is also very steep, which prevents a "fully balanced" player, since it takes a lot of levelling up to really sharpen a favorite combat-skill, leaving all other skills ignored. These skills are represented instead by carefully selected and honed companions (who also have other minor features for you, more role-play!)
    And you can get married.

    Granted, it doesn't have the in-depth storyline as Morrowind, and you can't pick up wooden spoons insisting on selling them as loot, but there's absolutely no reason to "confront" Mount and Blade for not really being a role-play game.

    That said, I dunno why it's being discussed here, cus it's not really a FPS (as ChildServices implies) but a.. well.. RPG!

    (does it show that I really like this game? Seriously, just try it. And remember, M&B: Warband, it's the same as M&B just consider it a "fully concieved" version. The graphics aren't as bad as you might think. They're dated, sure, but it's really not that bad, and horse-riding! Horse-riding! Wheee! And not like in stupid Oblivion either, you ride your horse, raise your sword, and swoop that blade through peoples faces like a boss!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I'll say this again, just because a game borrows some mechanics from RPGs doesn't have to mean that it is an RPG. In Heroes of the Storm you're doing also a lot of things that are very typical for RPGs, chosing a charcter, leveling him up, chosing his skills etc. Yet, it is an action game and not RPG. Now, I am not talking so much about M&B here, more in a general sense. Many of the mechanics you mentioned in your post can be found in quite a few shooters. How much it really makes them RPGs is a different question.
     
  19. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    It is an action role playing game... Now, you are free to opine that it isn't, and you are again making assumptions that it merely "borrows some mechanics", what does it have to do to actually BE a role play game then? BE Morrowind?

    I know that many of the mechanics of M&B can be found in shooters - but so can many of the mechanics of Morrowind, such as the quick 1st person approach, reliance on battle (almost every quest, plus wilderness exploration), and so on...

    I'm sure that there are games that dishonestly "steal" titles to decorate themselves with, but M&B in particular is a role playing game... Action-focused, sure, but it still is a role playing game, there's tons of role play in it - not just borrowed elements, but a real oportunity to immerse yourself.

    Checked the link, and no... for one - the majority of active gaming in M&B is map-travel, to calm "medieval" music. Any significant "all out" warfare is extremely unlikely for a new player, since you will, well, lose... you have to work your way up - by being cautious and calculating, doing as many peaceful quests as you can, and picking only battles you know you can win. You really are coming at this game, without actually having even seen it :D

    Does this look like a hectic shooter with "some borrowed rpg elements" to you??
    For the last time, just try the damn game, it's actually quite fun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  20. LordAshur

    LordAshur Banned

    293
    Jul 18, 2015
    I wouldn't necessarily call give it the "action" title, since you can literally conquer all of Calradia without ever once swinging your weapon if you choose to specialize in leadership and trade. The most accurate description of M&B would be medieval simulation RPG.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1